bypass trans filter plumbing question

[laproscopic]

I put a trasco oil filter on my 96 landcruiser recently and just got a preluber in mail (www.autoenginelube.com)to be installed this weekend.
Now that i got the bug i want a bypass trans filter. The landcruiser came from the factory with a massive tranny cooler (covers the entire area of the radiator)and i want to tee off the hose going from the tranny to the cooler and run this to a trasco or frantz and then from the bypass filter back into the hose directing trany fluid from the trans cooler back to transmission. (thus running in parallel) My question is: does enough pressure difference exist between the hoses going into and leaving the transmission cooler to promote flow through a bypass? Also, If i use a trasco on a permacool remote filter mount will this flow so well as to divert too much flow from the transmission cooler? Also would it be ok to use said permacool remote filter adapter with a SINGLE amsoil bypass filter? I realy don't want to comprimise my transmission cooler by robbing its flow. The landcruiser came from factory with a drain plug on trany pan and i could plug into this for return but that just sounds like more work.

 

[Gary Allan]

If you go with a Trasco ..you want to go inline. If you go with a Frantz ..I think that they have an internal bypass ..so it's still in line (I think). If you go with the cheapest setup, an Amsoil setup (xx-80 -I forget), then do it in parallel as close to the trans as possible. There has to be a pressure differential across the cooler circuit. The greatest diff will be between the in and out of the trans...but the "shrinkage" across the cooler itself might be enough. That's pretty much all you need.

 

[laproscopic]

Ralph Wood commenting on his web site on the motorguard mg-30-atf (automatic transmission filter) reports that the atf filter has a 1/8" restrictor to allow for fluid resisance to promote flow through the filter. The site claims you need only install the filter in series into the transmission cooler loop and you will still get plenty of flow to the cooler through this setup. Also the mg-30-atf has 1/4" ports comming into and leaving it-if my transmission cooler uses 3/8" lines arn't i intruducing considerably decreased cooler flow regardless of any decreased flow from the filter and restrictor? Has anyone measured the pressure drop across this system?

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't think your flow will change much ..your pressures might get manipulated a bit. That is, the velocities may change through different restrictions. ATF has a very low viscosity. Even when cold. I have shared your skepticism in the past. I don't believe that this is an issue.

Here's the cheapest bypass setup out there. ..about $50 delivered. Plumbed in parallel to your cooler circuit, it would do fine. I'm still debating on doing this myself. My main fear is the lock up converter clutch material disintegrating (it's happened to me before) and basically requiring an immediate rebuild. A bypass filter will never prevent that from occuring. I'll probably go with a FL1A and a permacool.

[ November 11, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[4.8 Silverado]

I`m running a Trasco filter in-line between the trans and oil cooler with no problems.Just passed 20k on the filter and the ATF looks and feels like new. The Permacool adapter worked great for this application.Right now I`m fighting the temptation to take the filter off and look at the media,real curious to see whats in there,LOL.

 

[laproscopic]

gary and silverado, thaks
what does the "$50 deliveered" come with? is it possible to purchase only the permacool piece that screws to the filter and has the input and output holes without buying the hoses and block adapter that come with a full remote filter mount kit? if so where is the cheapest place to buy this piece? Also, does an amsoil bypass filter screw to a regular full flow filter fitting like an auto filter (ford ph8a in my case) and what do they cost? Also if you run a full flow auto filter in parallel around the cooler do you need to restrict filter input to to avoud too much cooler bypass in the parallel loop? what is the FLIA?

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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what does the "$50 deliveered" come with?

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Just what you see there without the hoses. The mount and the Amsoil BE-90 bypass filter.

quote:

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is it possible to purchase only the permacool piece that screws to the filter and has the input and output holes without buying the hoses and block adapter that come with a full remote filter mount kit?

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Yes, from jegs.com or summitracing.com ..but that will only be for full flow setups. The Amsoil bypass has Cummins FF threads on it. There is no other adapter that it fits to my knowledge.

quote:

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Also if you run a full flow auto filter in parallel around the cooler do you need to restrict filter input to to avoud too much cooler bypass in the parallel loop? what is the FLIA?

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There is no need to run a ff in parallel. You can just run it in-line and be happy as heck. You can then change it every OCI ..every other OCI ..whatever you feel is appropriate.

Probably the best filtration and long term serviceability would be using a Trasco in-line. You would then have the ff part of it catching the bigger particles ..and the TP catching the finer ones. Just like 4.8 Silverado did.


The FL1A is the Motor Craft part number for the standard Ford sized ff filter. PH8A, ST8A, B2 (baldwin) 1515 in NAPA, 51515 in WIX. The correct thread and gasket size for the standard permacool filter mount ..which costs about $15 from the sources that I mentioned above. You can get shorter or even longer versions of this filter as your space allows or restricts.

 

[laproscopic]

Thanks
Then I guess I would like to run a series circuit after the cooler with a permacool $15 piece so that i could use a full flow or a trasco from it. Is there anything wrong with running the permacool piece w a full flow/trasco in parallel? If i run a amsoil bypass filter

 

[laproscopic]

sorry not finished---hit wrong button

Then I guess I would like to run a series circuit after the cooler with a permacool $15 piece so that i could use a full flow or a trasco from it. Is there anything wrong with running the permacool piece w a full flow/trasco in parallel? If i run a amsoil bypass filter can i screw it to the same perma cool piece i use for the trasco/full flow-i didn't totally follow you gary..I think the easiest thing to do would to just buy a dual remote permacool piece and run it in series then i could be lazy and not mess with all the hoses and fittings of a parallel circuit and still get fine filtering on my transmission....but this would only work if one of the two filters on the dual mount was a bypass....and this would only be possible if the amsoil filter would screw right on the permacool. what do you think of this gary?....note, i read your thread about the amsoil bypass and a dual mount, i just want to make sure i could run a amsoil bypass and a regular full flow on a permacool dual mount.

 

[Gary Allan]

Okay ....let's see. I can understand your confusion here.

I was able to use my Permacool dual mount for Amsoil bypass filters (one) becaus I used the Amoil inserts that share the same internal threads as the Pemacool (3/4-16) and have the Cummins threads on the filter side (1-16). I already had the Permacool plumbed ..so it was a no brainer.

Read this thread. Many of your questions will be answered here.

You can run either the Amsoil tandem mount (ff-bypass) or a single or dual Tasco in-line and be covered every way to Sunday. The only thing I'm unsure of is service intervals. With either you're looking at about $200 ($100 + for a single trasco/permacool) by the time you're done.

You do not want to run a ff in parallel with your cooling circuit. It doesn't present enough resistance and you'll shunt too much flow from the cooler. A bypass of any type will work well in this setup.

I had more typed out ..but the board's server had issues and I lost it before getting to post it.

If you've got the room and the cash ..go for the Amsoil dual setup in-line. Hit up sparky (msparks) for a recommended service interval and be worry free for over a year (probably). You can add up to 4 quarts of capacity if your have the room for the big BE-110 filter and the Cummins ff.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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so i will need to use a full flow filter for a month or so-there isn't anything wrong with using a plain old full flow in series on my trany is there?

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No problem with the ff...you can even go with an M1 filter ...or a ST8A from WallyWorld. ATF is VERY thin ..even when cold when compared to just about any oil. You will have very little problems using any media in a ff. If you mount it high enough, you can use a WIX 51773 (NAPA 1773 available at any NAPA). It's 7" long. This, I imagine, can be changed out as often as you like, every OCI ..every other OCI depending on how intense you get about this.

A wife always whines about money. They never quite put the same magnifying glass to their own spending habits.

[ November 13, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[laproscopic]

no kidding (wife thing)
You've been a big help Gary
thanks again-ill get the biggest filter i can.

 

[RalphPWood]

The way I did a new Dodge Cummins with 1/2" ID fluid lines to the cooler is I installed a Perma-Cool remote filter mount from www.jegs.com 771-1211. Then I installed a 771-181 Ford sandwich adapter. I screwed a Motor Craft filter on the adapter because that is what the customer brought with him. Then I ran hoses to a Motor Guard filter from the sandwich adapter. You have to make sure the fluid is flowing thru the full flow filter in the right direction. The fluid is lifetime fill so the fluid may never need to be changed. The filters should go 100,000 miles between filter changes. When I change mine it is usually to check the condition of the tranny. The system is a dual remote system that doesn't restrict the flow if the fluid is going thru in the right direction. Before hooking up the main lines I had the customer start the engine. The hose with the fluid squirting out I hooked to the inlet of the remote mount. This system can be used with any submicronic bypass filter such as the Frantz. If you have a clearance problem screw on a Toyota full flow filter. The full flow filter without the submicronic filter is a vast improvement over the stock transmission filter. I don't change ATF or remove the pan. Haven't for almost 40 years.

Ralph

 

[laproscopic]

thanks gary...that link was just what i needed...why must amsoil make things so difficut?...anyway I ordered a single filter ford permacool adapter and will likely be installing it in series next week if i get a chance. (im a new resident dr and work like a dog-i check this forum between patients) I cant afford the trasco right now as i just purchased the preluber and my wife will want to know why i am buying so much stuff for the landcruiser when it aparently is working just fine. so i will need to use a full flow filter for a month or so-there isn't anything wrong with using a plain old full flow in series on my trany is there?

 

[laproscopic]

thanks ralph
i got a "transdapt" 3/4 remote mount. (similar to permacool but more heave-duty)i also baught a couple wix 51622-its a transmission only filter w a 7-9 psi bypass. im trying to work out the mount now.

 

[RalphPWood]

Laproscopic,

That's probably all you need. Typically the first filter change will get the fluid clean. After that it is easy for the filter unless you over heat the fluid. That wouldn't be a problem for you. Perma-Cool recommends 50,000 mile changes for their ATF filter.
I had a front wheel drive Chevrolet engine that I needed to put in a Farmall H tractor. I bought a rear wheel drive transmission for it at a salvage. On the first change the TP was black. That would normally mean the tranny is junk. It cleaned up after a couple of changes so I probably saved it. I have a chart somewhere that gives the aproximate transmission life at different temperatures. It's enough to make you go out and buy a good cooler. My TH-350 book shows a picture of a Perma-Cool ATF mount.

Most books are more into repairs than preventing the problem.

Ralph

 

[laproscopic]

thanks ralph
3 years ago the transmission on an old 89 olds cutlas i had recently inherited from my inlaws started to shift rough and i was sure (and even hopefull) it was on the way out (170,000 miles. I droped the pan to change the transmission fluid in the beast and found about a 1/4 inch of crud in the bottom of the pan; it had pobably never been changed. Once i changed the fluid it took a month before it started shifting better. I'm still driving the beaste and it just wont die. It's now sort of a quest to keep it going-i change the fluids regularly and its as if the machine is getting a second wind. I think ill put a tranny filter in it too. Its amazing how long a decent combustion engine will last if you take care of it. I've been a physician for 1.5 years now and am impressed with the human body and what it does and the abuses it can absorb. We do a lot to tweak it. I'm continually confused as to why automakers dont put in place systems that could easily prolong their machines.

 

[Lube Dude]

Folks-

Bypass is not indicated on a transmission circuit, as the system generates little contamination once you get to a "no-wear" condition, where the particles are smaller than the smallest oil film clearance. Occasionally you can come across a discussion of the no-wear condition, it's a principle we use to keep industrial machinery deleriously happy. Here's some food for thought...

http://www.pall.com/hydraulic_3779.asp?level0=2


The depth-type (bypass) media is wonderful for pulling a handful of dirt out on a continuous basis, as in a IC engine, where you have lots of flow, and no problem with a pressure drop.

There are industrial full-flow spin-on filters rated at 3 microns that will do a fine job on in-line tranny protection. They are so big in terms of capacity that, after changing out the first one after a week or so, it will only need an annual. Spin-on, 3/4" pipe ports, Less than $30 including head.

See:

http://www.parker.com/EAD/displayCa...esc=12AT/50AT SERIES&viewtype=1&sMode=Details

See P/N 4ZC86 at grainger.com. Perhaps there's an offering for a similar filter from one of the site sponsors.

Cheers

 

[laproscopic]

I got the "transdapt" remote 3/4 adapter installed last night with the WiX filter. (9psi bypass) Due to the dificulty of accessing lines I installed the filter in series before the cooler in front of the radiator. I wanted to put the filter after the cooler but I don't immagine it makes much difference.

 

[4.8 Silverado]

I have my filter installed in the same manner as yours and it is doing fine,good luck.