Buying tires with lower speed rating

[Traction]

The spec tire for a 2015 Focus ST is 235/40-18XL 95Y.
The spec tire for a 2015 Focus S is 195/65-15 91H.
The spec tire for a 2015 Titanium is 235/40-18XL 95W.
The spec tire for a 2015 Focus SE could have one of 3 different tires. 215/55-16 93H, 215/50-17 91H, or 215/50-17XL 95W. Many different speed, and load ratings for the same basic car.
So in the OP's case, if he wanted to use a V rated tire, it might give up some dry grip, over a Y, but who knows? Every tire/car/driver/conditions is different. Maybe it should be a law that you are required to use only the OEM tire on everything. Just to be safe. If I had a Focus ST, I would love to have some DOT race tires on it with enough grip to get it up on 2 wheels. That would be fun!

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Ok, so how do we find out if there's a cap ply?

My sidewalls have two plies. My tread has 4 to 5, sometimes listed as 2 steel, two nylon or polyamide.

Do we need one steel belt just to exist, and the 2nd steel belt is the capper?


You look at the plies listed on the tire. Generally a cap ply will be listed as something like "nylon" or "polyamide."

On this tire, the cap ply is the "1 nylon" listed.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I never understood the logic of paying for the higher performance model of a car than throwing junk rubber on it.


Explain in detail how a Lexus ES300 is "higher performance" than a Camry. Be specific.

Quote:
Tirerack.com lists a number of good tires for that car from $100-$150 each, that's cheap! What are you saving $10 a tire by using H rated rubber?

Half of the used oil analysis posted here waste more money than that.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?...mp;autoModClar=
Heck for $180 each probably less if you wait for a rebate you can put the best high performance tires made on that car.


Yeah, if you're a Michelin Tire Cultist and you want gumball summer tires!

Quote:
Even when I was a broke [censored] student I always had good rubber and brakes on my junk cars. I never understand the logic of spending $30 on a used oil analysis on $30 worth of oil that doesn't need to be changed, but cheeping out on something that actually matters and makes the ownership of the car more enjoyable; tires! Especially on a vehicle like that where you can actually get really good rubber for pretty cheap.

I see this with used BMW's and Mercedes constantly, even high performance models. Nothing looks worse than a performance or just a nice car with happy good times china rubber on the wheels. Its the automotive equivalent of taking a super hot women to McDonald's for a dinner date.


Describe, in detail, your bad experiences with the tires in question. Be specific.


This thread is about a Ford Focus ST, please read the OP's post more carefully.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Let's turn it around and make it relevant to OP question.
Is Focus ST higher performance version than Focus SE?
Is WRX higher performance vehicle than Impreza?
Is Buick Regal GS higher performance version that Regal?

Krzys


Yes, but "higher performance" does not equal "high performance." The OP stated how he plans to drive the car. Daily driver. No Mods. No track use. Some occasional runs through the gears and quick off ramp fun are not a reason to run Y rated tires. Ford sticks these summer tires on the car as factory equipement so they get the best track times while trying to break into the hot hatchback segment. There is likely nothing this car will experience that the lesser versions of his car could not also be subjected to.

 

[krzyss]

Then why buy higher performance version?
If one wants higher performance one pays for it more money up front and higher maintenance cost for wear items.

To OP. I suspect H and up is minimum what I would do but you may not like the end product as it will handle and feel different from what you bought.

Krzys

 

[stranger706]

Wow look what I started. Thanks for all the replies.

To be clear, this was not about saving money. Not sure where that came from. I don't plan on "throwing some cheap rubber" on my car, I've always believed in high quality tires.

The Focus ST a high performance car? No, its an economy car with a turbo and big wheels. Its slower than a V6 Camry. My dads 911S is a high performance car. It makes sense for that car to have Y rated tires.

I just want more choices than Y rated summer tires. That limits someone to a small, elite group of tires. They ride like [censored] and don't last long at all.

 

[krzyss]

So what do you want from tires on ST?

I bet ST is faster than V6 Camry, especially with any turns.

Camry SE - above 7 sec.

http://www.autotrader.com/car-info/camry-qa-whats-the-0-60-time-149315

Focus ST 6.3 sec probably abusing the clutch

http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/focus-st

Krzys

 

[krzyss]

I found C&D time for Camry XSE.
It is 5.8 sec! Quite quick.

"Yet the grunty V-6 continues as the one entertaining aspect of the Camry’s drive; zero to 60 mph happens in 5.8 seconds and the quarter-mile passes in 14.3 at 100 mph"

Braking is different story:

"Both their lateral grip on the skidpad (0.81 g) and their stopping performance from 70 mph (178 feet) are unexceptional."

http://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/camry

Krzys

 

[krzyss]

C&D has info about what happens to ST when equipped with OE summer vs OE All season!

"Because rubber compounds tend to work best when formulated for a specific temperature range, all-season tires have compromised grip in warm and cold conditions, hence the playful “no-season tire” nickname they’ve earned in some circles. The results of our two grip-centric tests—lateral acceleration and braking—show a dramatic decline in dry grip with the new Pirelli P Zero Nero All-Season tires fitted to our test car versus the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 summer rubber (both are sized 235/40R-18 all around). Braking from 70 mph to a stop consumes 186 feet, about 20 more than other STs we’ve tested, and lateral acceleration dips to 0.87 g, a decrease of about 0.07 g. For perspective on what’s been lost, consider that the Honda Accord Sport betters the ST’s braking by 11 feet and ties it for lateral grip. While the Accord is sporty for a family sedan, most of its sportiness comes by virtue of the “Sport” in its name; the ST should be able to walk all over it."

Enjoy!

Krzys

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted By: stranger706
Wow look what I started. Thanks for all the replies.

To be clear, this was not about saving money. Not sure where that came from. I don't plan on "throwing some cheap rubber" on my car, I've always believed in high quality tires.

The Focus ST a high performance car? No, its an economy car with a turbo and big wheels. Its slower than a V6 Camry. My dads 911S is a high performance car. It makes sense for that car to have Y rated tires.

I just want more choices than Y rated summer tires. That limits someone to a small, elite group of tires. They ride like [censored] and don't last long at all.

Well, after all this, They make a ton of tires in that size with load, and speed rating, in a all-season. Just don't buy the same tire you have again. I would try out a set of the new Continental DWS-06, and down the road you will wonder why you waited so long.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
I found C&D time for Camry XSE.
It is 5.8 sec! Quite quick.

"Yet the grunty V-6 continues as the one entertaining aspect of the Camry’s drive; zero to 60 mph happens in 5.8 seconds and the quarter-mile passes in 14.3 at 100 mph"

Braking is different story:

"Both their lateral grip on the skidpad (0.81 g) and their stopping performance from 70 mph (178 feet) are unexceptional."

http://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/camry

Krzys


Of course, a lot of it also boils down to the tires. the Camry gets unremarkable for handling & braking Grand Touring tires, vs the Focus ST getting iirc, Cooper RS3-S tires.

Put a less capable tire on it, ie a Michelin Primacy MXM4 (with a lower speed rating, of H), which is one of the available OE tires on the Camry, the Focus ST won't corner as well, nor brake as well, all due to the tires.... if you don't like the H-speed rating as a comparison, then try the Kumho ECSTA Platinum LX, it has W-speed rating. See everything I just wrote.

Also, if you bought the ST with the optional all-season tires, it would probably get the Cooper RS3-A, but won't be Y-rated, AND won't brake as well and corner as well when the weather is warm to hot.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
C&D has info about what happens to ST when equipped with OE summer vs OE All season!

"Because rubber compounds tend to work best when formulated for a specific temperature range, all-season tires have compromised grip in warm and cold conditions, hence the playful “no-season tire” nickname they’ve earned in some circles. The results of our two grip-centric tests—lateral acceleration and braking—show a dramatic decline in dry grip with the new Pirelli P Zero Nero All-Season tires fitted to our test car versus the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 summer rubber (both are sized 235/40R-18 all around). Braking from 70 mph to a stop consumes 186 feet, about 20 more than other STs we’ve tested, and lateral acceleration dips to 0.87 g, a decrease of about 0.07 g. For perspective on what’s been lost, consider that the Honda Accord Sport betters the ST’s braking by 11 feet and ties it for lateral grip. While the Accord is sporty for a family sedan, most of its sportiness comes by virtue of the “Sport” in its name; the ST should be able to walk all over it."

Enjoy!

Krzys

The question is what tires were on the Accord Sport?
Anyways for autocross or a track day, I'd think the ST on equal tires would still be more fun and a good bit quicker than an Accord.
Also running super sticky tires on the street sounds fun, but there's no one keeping time and I'd rather be going slower when driving hard in case something unexpected happens.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: krzyss
C&D has info about what happens to ST when equipped with OE summer vs OE All season!

"Because rubber compounds tend to work best when formulated for a specific temperature range, all-season tires have compromised grip in warm and cold conditions, hence the playful “no-season tire” nickname they’ve earned in some circles. The results of our two grip-centric tests—lateral acceleration and braking—show a dramatic decline in dry grip with the new Pirelli P Zero Nero All-Season tires fitted to our test car versus the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 summer rubber (both are sized 235/40R-18 all around). Braking from 70 mph to a stop consumes 186 feet, about 20 more than other STs we’ve tested, and lateral acceleration dips to 0.87 g, a decrease of about 0.07 g. For perspective on what’s been lost, consider that the Honda Accord Sport betters the ST’s braking by 11 feet and ties it for lateral grip. While the Accord is sporty for a family sedan, most of its sportiness comes by virtue of the “Sport” in its name; the ST should be able to walk all over it."

Enjoy!

Krzys

The question is what tires were on the Accord Sport?
Anyways for autocross or a track day, I'd think the ST on equal tires would still be more fun and a good bit quicker than an Accord.
Also running super sticky tires on the street sounds fun, but there's no one keeping time and I'd rather be going slower when driving hard in case something unexpected happens.


My buddy's Accord sport (2015, sedan) has Michelin Primacy MXM4 on them

 

[krzyss]

Going slower may not always be possible.
Very similar car (I think it is 14 Focus ST vs 15 Focus ST) Summer vs All Season braking 70-0 there is 20 feet braking distance difference, ~1.5 car length.
On dry.
I expect wet would be even more bigger difference.

Pick tires that suite you.

Krzys

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Going slower may not always be possible.
Very similar car (I think it is 14 Focus ST vs 15 Focus ST) Summer vs All Season braking 70-0 there is 20 feet braking distance difference, ~1.5 car length.
On dry.
I expect wet would be even more bigger difference.

Pick tires that suite you.

Krzys

Probably 95% of the vehicles on the road still perform worse than the ST on all seasons, so I think its manageable...