Buying tires with lower speed rating
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Originally Posted By: Kruse
Most shops will have no problem putting on a tire with a lesser speed rating.
Proof of this would be WalMart jumping at the chance to put on some really cheap GoodYear tires.
Wally refused to do it for me when I brought in my I4 Camry which was riding on Avalon alloy 15s instead of the mingy 14s it came with. The head tire buster tried to explain to the ex ladies wear tire manager that the I4 wasn't going to go any faster with H rated 15s in 205-65-15 size instead of the T rated 14s it was delivered with, in one ear, out the other, the BOOK said "all V6s should have V rated...". I opened the hood and asked the "fella" to count plug wires. He declined. They DID, however, mount and balance the new tires and return them to ME to install. How that changed their liability position I don't know.
Most shops will have no problem putting on a tire with a lesser speed rating.
Proof of this would be WalMart jumping at the chance to put on some really cheap GoodYear tires.
Wally refused to do it for me when I brought in my I4 Camry which was riding on Avalon alloy 15s instead of the mingy 14s it came with. The head tire buster tried to explain to the ex ladies wear tire manager that the I4 wasn't going to go any faster with H rated 15s in 205-65-15 size instead of the T rated 14s it was delivered with, in one ear, out the other, the BOOK said "all V6s should have V rated...". I opened the hood and asked the "fella" to count plug wires. He declined. They DID, however, mount and balance the new tires and return them to ME to install. How that changed their liability position I don't know.
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Walmart has Nexen tires with the correct speed rating for $111 each
This topic has been hashed over and over...and yet people don't read all the threads we've taken time to post....
...and continue to throw out the old "fact" that the speed you drive determines the speed rating of the tire, when we've pointed out many times that tire speed rating reflects tire construction and performance under stress...that that is the determining factor when a tire's speed rating is specified by a car manufacturer...
This is not to say that choosing a tire one level rating lower couldn't be done CORRECTLY, but such a decision must be done after researching the specific tire to determine whether THAT tire would meet the required characteristics of the higher rated tire....dropping more than 1 level runs that much higher risk of getting a tire of insufficient strength to perform adequately on a car requiring a higher rated tire.
...and this...there are higher rated tires that aren't built as well as a lower rated tire...You cannot determine the quality and ability of a tire solely on the basis speed rating.
...something that has been said here many many times...
...and continue to throw out the old "fact" that the speed you drive determines the speed rating of the tire, when we've pointed out many times that tire speed rating reflects tire construction and performance under stress...that that is the determining factor when a tire's speed rating is specified by a car manufacturer...
This is not to say that choosing a tire one level rating lower couldn't be done CORRECTLY, but such a decision must be done after researching the specific tire to determine whether THAT tire would meet the required characteristics of the higher rated tire....dropping more than 1 level runs that much higher risk of getting a tire of insufficient strength to perform adequately on a car requiring a higher rated tire.
...and this...there are higher rated tires that aren't built as well as a lower rated tire...You cannot determine the quality and ability of a tire solely on the basis speed rating.
...something that has been said here many many times...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No respectable shop with any credibility will sell you lower rated tires. The only way you should be able to pull this off is to put the car up on blocks and bring in the wheels yourself.
Or do the online ordering thing, but the shops still won't usually mount them. Their liability is high in this case.
Good luck...
Pablum.
No respectable shop with any credibility will sell you lower rated tires. The only way you should be able to pull this off is to put the car up on blocks and bring in the wheels yourself.
Or do the online ordering thing, but the shops still won't usually mount them. Their liability is high in this case.
Good luck...
Pablum.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No respectable shop with any credibility will sell you lower rated tires. The only way you should be able to pull this off is to put the car up on blocks and bring in the wheels yourself.
Or do the online ordering thing, but the shops still won't usually mount them. Their liability is high in this case.
Good luck...
Pablum.
Vapid. I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
There is liability whether or not you believe, and the facts remain despite your assertion...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No respectable shop with any credibility will sell you lower rated tires. The only way you should be able to pull this off is to put the car up on blocks and bring in the wheels yourself.
Or do the online ordering thing, but the shops still won't usually mount them. Their liability is high in this case.
Good luck...
Pablum.
Vapid. I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
There is liability whether or not you believe, and the facts remain despite your assertion...
Just so everyone understands:
1) It is engineering practice to over-design - and in this case, over-specify components. That's because engineering is an inexact science and over specifying is a way of dealing with the inherent inaccuracy of the process. So the tires specified for cars (via the vehicle tire placard) are rated higher for both speed and load the calculated minimums. While it may appear to be overkill, a certain Ford/Firestone situation a few years ago has proven otherwise.
2) Lawyers are great at finding ways to sue people with deep pockets. Any deviation from the specs is fertile ground. Ergo, any tire shop that puts on a lower rated tire is accepting a potentially business-killing risk.
3) You can't sign away your rights. Even signing a waiver doesn't relieve the tire shop of doing best practices - and lawyers know this!
1) It is engineering practice to over-design - and in this case, over-specify components. That's because engineering is an inexact science and over specifying is a way of dealing with the inherent inaccuracy of the process. So the tires specified for cars (via the vehicle tire placard) are rated higher for both speed and load the calculated minimums. While it may appear to be overkill, a certain Ford/Firestone situation a few years ago has proven otherwise.
2) Lawyers are great at finding ways to sue people with deep pockets. Any deviation from the specs is fertile ground. Ergo, any tire shop that puts on a lower rated tire is accepting a potentially business-killing risk.
3) You can't sign away your rights. Even signing a waiver doesn't relieve the tire shop of doing best practices - and lawyers know this!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
I'd like to see the "law," likely there isn't one. They may have a policy, but I'd be surprised to see a law on it.
It's like when people here repeat that it's "illegal" to plug a tire. As has been pointed out in other threads, no one has ever been able to show a law saying it's illegal, it's just something that people online parrot.
Back on the original topic, as has been pointed out, speed rating does not directly correlate to handling. There are other variables.
Some cars come with ridiculous speed ratings from the factory. My old Sonata had V-rated tires on a family car with squishy factory suspension. Nowhere in the manual did or the tire sticker on the door did it state that V-rated tires were required. I had no problem going down to a quality T-rated tire with a cap ply. It performed great in my driving.
As has been pointed out in the many other threads on this topic, shops can argue there's a liability factor for them, so they can refuse to do it. But a lot of people on this forum go way over the top with their claims about speed ratings and doom saying about going down in rating.
I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
I'd like to see the "law," likely there isn't one. They may have a policy, but I'd be surprised to see a law on it.
It's like when people here repeat that it's "illegal" to plug a tire. As has been pointed out in other threads, no one has ever been able to show a law saying it's illegal, it's just something that people online parrot.
Back on the original topic, as has been pointed out, speed rating does not directly correlate to handling. There are other variables.
Some cars come with ridiculous speed ratings from the factory. My old Sonata had V-rated tires on a family car with squishy factory suspension. Nowhere in the manual did or the tire sticker on the door did it state that V-rated tires were required. I had no problem going down to a quality T-rated tire with a cap ply. It performed great in my driving.
As has been pointed out in the many other threads on this topic, shops can argue there's a liability factor for them, so they can refuse to do it. But a lot of people on this forum go way over the top with their claims about speed ratings and doom saying about going down in rating.
I went from and "H" to a "T" on my Rav4 but it's not exactly what you would call a performance vehicle.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Capri,
Given your wealth of knowledge, can you see any practical problems with running tires of at least an H rating on a daily driver/commuter that'll never see any real speed or even hard driving?
First, I think H rated tires are adequate within the US and Canada. I also think they are MINIMUMS.
An H speed rated tire is 130 mph - and IMHO, that is not overkill. That's not because of the speed, but the fact that it takes a cap ply to virtually eliminate the possibility of a tread separation - and H rated tires will always have one - lower, not so much.
I can also understand why a V speed rated tire might be specified for what appears to be a common 4 door sedan - and that's because the vehicle manufacturer wants a certain amount of handling built into the tire - OR - they think they want a vehicle package that can be shipped ANYWHERE, including places where there aren't speed limits.
And lastly, I can also understand why a tire shop might not want to deviate from the vehicle specs in any way - even those I just enumerated above.
Capri,
Given your wealth of knowledge, can you see any practical problems with running tires of at least an H rating on a daily driver/commuter that'll never see any real speed or even hard driving?
First, I think H rated tires are adequate within the US and Canada. I also think they are MINIMUMS.
An H speed rated tire is 130 mph - and IMHO, that is not overkill. That's not because of the speed, but the fact that it takes a cap ply to virtually eliminate the possibility of a tread separation - and H rated tires will always have one - lower, not so much.
I can also understand why a V speed rated tire might be specified for what appears to be a common 4 door sedan - and that's because the vehicle manufacturer wants a certain amount of handling built into the tire - OR - they think they want a vehicle package that can be shipped ANYWHERE, including places where there aren't speed limits.
And lastly, I can also understand why a tire shop might not want to deviate from the vehicle specs in any way - even those I just enumerated above.
A 2015 4 cylinder Camry could have either a S rated tire, or a V speed rated tire from the factory. Personally I prefer V rated tires, but if the lower speed rated tires are so dangerous, why do they even make them? I would take a premium S rated tire, over a cheap V+ rated tire anytime. Traction for the conditions is more important, than the speed rating IMO. I wouldn't try to hit the speed limiter on snow tires.
I don't think any Camry 4-banger is spec'd for an "S" rated tire...at least not since 2005 when some had at least "T" rated tires...My 05 was spec'd for "H" speed tires even back then....and I don't think I'd consider ANY S-speed passenger car tire "premium"... This is not to say that a dealer wouldn't switch out the V-speed tires for cheapies...though I'd think that illegal, unethical at the very least.
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Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I don't think any Camry 4-banger is spec'd for an "S" rated tire...at least not since 2005 when some had at least "T" rated tires...My 05 was spec'd for "H" speed tires even back then....and I don't think I'd consider ANY S-speed passenger car tire "premium"... This is not to say that a dealer wouldn't switch out the V-speed tires for cheapies...though I'd think that illegal, unethical at the very least.
The tire info was right out of the 2015 Tire Guide. There are many, many models, and makes that use S rated tires on base models, and the speed rating jumps up on optional wheel sizes, even with trucks. Only because they don't make many 55 etc. series tires in a s rating. Just like trying to buy a V rated 65-70 series tire. Many premium tires are s rated. Maybe we should set the speed limits to the tires speed rating like they do in Germany. If you get caught driving over the tires rating, you get a ticket!
I don't think any Camry 4-banger is spec'd for an "S" rated tire...at least not since 2005 when some had at least "T" rated tires...My 05 was spec'd for "H" speed tires even back then....and I don't think I'd consider ANY S-speed passenger car tire "premium"... This is not to say that a dealer wouldn't switch out the V-speed tires for cheapies...though I'd think that illegal, unethical at the very least.
The tire info was right out of the 2015 Tire Guide. There are many, many models, and makes that use S rated tires on base models, and the speed rating jumps up on optional wheel sizes, even with trucks. Only because they don't make many 55 etc. series tires in a s rating. Just like trying to buy a V rated 65-70 series tire. Many premium tires are s rated. Maybe we should set the speed limits to the tires speed rating like they do in Germany. If you get caught driving over the tires rating, you get a ticket!
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
I'd like to see the "law," likely there isn't one. They may have a policy, but I'd be surprised to see a law on it.
It's like when people here repeat that it's "illegal" to plug a tire. As has been pointed out in other threads, no one has ever been able to show a law saying it's illegal, it's just something that people online parrot.
You are correct in that crummy corporate training, from the midlevel to the drones, misquotes company policy as law. I've seen it.
It is presently legal in Maine to plug a tire, but they just made it legal a couple years ago. I have an old (2001) MV inspection manual that, at the time, made it illegal.
Naturally, there are laws that you need an inspection sticker to drive, and that it's illegal to repair your car contrary to the inspection guidelines.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I buy a lot of tires and the shops we deal with have quoted the law before. Tire Kingdom even has a handout explaining their position.
I'd like to see the "law," likely there isn't one. They may have a policy, but I'd be surprised to see a law on it.
It's like when people here repeat that it's "illegal" to plug a tire. As has been pointed out in other threads, no one has ever been able to show a law saying it's illegal, it's just something that people online parrot.
You are correct in that crummy corporate training, from the midlevel to the drones, misquotes company policy as law. I've seen it.
It is presently legal in Maine to plug a tire, but they just made it legal a couple years ago. I have an old (2001) MV inspection manual that, at the time, made it illegal.
Naturally, there are laws that you need an inspection sticker to drive, and that it's illegal to repair your car contrary to the inspection guidelines.
Originally Posted By: Traction
KitaCam said:
This was in the tire guide too. "The speed-rating system used today was developed in Europe in response to the need to control the performance of tires at standardized speeds". Which in the US, it would be 80 mph. The car I drove on the autobahn had a big bright sticker on the dash, that said, "Do not exceed 210kph (130mph)" The car could have gone faster than that.
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Originally Posted By: Traction
This was in the tire guide too. "The speed-rating system used today was developed in Europe in response to the need to control the performance of tires at standardized speeds". Which in the US, it would be 80 mph. The car I drove on the autobahn had a big bright sticker on the dash, that said, "Do not exceed 210kph (130mph)" The car could have gone faster than that.
Again...tire speed rating is NOT merely an indicator of how fast you can or can not drive...it is (as mentioned here) a designation of design and construction to performance specifications under stress (braking, cornering, etc)...
This was in the tire guide too. "The speed-rating system used today was developed in Europe in response to the need to control the performance of tires at standardized speeds". Which in the US, it would be 80 mph. The car I drove on the autobahn had a big bright sticker on the dash, that said, "Do not exceed 210kph (130mph)" The car could have gone faster than that.
Again...tire speed rating is NOT merely an indicator of how fast you can or can not drive...it is (as mentioned here) a designation of design and construction to performance specifications under stress (braking, cornering, etc)...
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