Buick Transmission Fluid Change
- Thread starter actionstan
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Pre-2005 GM transmissions use Dex III; but since that is not an option (not licensed by GM anymore), any dex/merc is compatible.
I use Castrol, but if you can find a better deal at Walmart or Costco for example for a cheaper brand, go for it!
Care to enlighten is us to what the difference is between a 2004 and a pre 2004 4T65E other than the 4th gear input shaft and manufacturer of the solenoids?
Interesting about the friction modifiers does the 04 and up use different clutch plates or a different TQ clutch material? More detergents to keep it clean? Is that a bad thing?
I guess i better go drain my 2 pre 2004 units and fill with some Dex III before they both blow up on me.
Edit: Oh i see you say Maxlife Dex/Mercon is ok. Is there a big difference between that and Dex VI?
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Pre-2005 GM transmissions use Dex III; but since that is not an option (not licensed by GM anymore), any dex/merc is compatible.
I use Castrol, but if you can find a better deal at Walmart or Costco for example for a cheaper brand, go for it!
Care to enlighten is us to what the difference is between a 2004 and a pre 2004 4T65E other than the 4th gear input shaft and manufacturer of the solenoids?
Interesting about the friction modifiers does the 04 and up use different clutch plates or a different TQ clutch material? More detergents to keep it clean? Is that a bad thing?
I guess i better go drain my 2 pre 2004 units and fill with some Dex III before they both blow up on me.
Edit: Oh i see you say Maxlife Dex/Mercon is ok. Is there a big difference between that and Dex VI?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I even had a similar problem as the op in this thread with a firmer shift than I liked between 1-2 shift and dex 6 seemed to soften it a bit.
Softer is not really a good thing, can be a sign of slippage.
Of course, too firm is not good for u-joints, etc...
I even had a similar problem as the op in this thread with a firmer shift than I liked between 1-2 shift and dex 6 seemed to soften it a bit.
Softer is not really a good thing, can be a sign of slippage.
Of course, too firm is not good for u-joints, etc...
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I even had a similar problem as the op in this thread with a firmer shift than I liked between 1-2 shift and dex 6 seemed to soften it a bit.
Softer is not really a good thing, can be a sign of slippage.
Of course, too firm is not good for u-joints, etc...
I'm sure it was doing lots of funny things with the FF still in it when i bought it.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I even had a similar problem as the op in this thread with a firmer shift than I liked between 1-2 shift and dex 6 seemed to soften it a bit.
Softer is not really a good thing, can be a sign of slippage.
Of course, too firm is not good for u-joints, etc...
I'm sure it was doing lots of funny things with the FF still in it when i bought it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
What are you talking about i used Supertech Dex VI in my 2002 Century.
Not a good idea, that's why.
Dex VI is a whole different animal, why risk putting that in your car?
Dex/merc is what should be used in pre-2005 GM vehicles... whether it's Full syn. maxlife or some other non syn. version.
I read on this very forum about a guy using Dex VI in his pre-2005 Pontiac with NOT so favorable results... So the question remains, why risk it?
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
What are you talking about i used Supertech Dex VI in my 2002 Century.
Not a good idea, that's why.
Dex VI is a whole different animal, why risk putting that in your car?
Dex/merc is what should be used in pre-2005 GM vehicles... whether it's Full syn. maxlife or some other non syn. version.
I read on this very forum about a guy using Dex VI in his pre-2005 Pontiac with NOT so favorable results... So the question remains, why risk it?
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
Originally Posted By: Ken_W
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
Fair enough.
Perhaps I should've stated "in my opinion" when warning against using it in a pre-2005 GM. I've read some negatives about using it as such. Also, there's a reason fluid manufacturers make different spec fluids for different years; if there wasn't, they would only make dex VI for everybody.
I'm a firm believer that the engineers know what they are doing.
Dex VI has beefed up friction modifiers and detergents (google says so), I wouldn't mess with it (especially in a Dex II spec'd car such as mine!).
If Dex II was available, then I for sure wouldn't use Dex III like I'm using now....
"Why risk it?" is always my question.
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
Fair enough.
Perhaps I should've stated "in my opinion" when warning against using it in a pre-2005 GM. I've read some negatives about using it as such. Also, there's a reason fluid manufacturers make different spec fluids for different years; if there wasn't, they would only make dex VI for everybody.
I'm a firm believer that the engineers know what they are doing.
Dex VI has beefed up friction modifiers and detergents (google says so), I wouldn't mess with it (especially in a Dex II spec'd car such as mine!).
If Dex II was available, then I for sure wouldn't use Dex III like I'm using now....
"Why risk it?" is always my question.
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: Ken_W
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
I'm a firm believer that the engineers know what they are doing.
That is a big mistake!
Originally Posted By: Ken_W
I've been using Dex VI in my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville for two years. No problems yet. Plan on doing a pan drop soon and refilling with more Dex VI.
I don't claim to be an expert on the III vs. VI debate; just a real-world example sharing that my trans has not burned up from it.
I'm a firm believer that the engineers know what they are doing.
That is a big mistake!
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
That is a big mistake!
IMO, the engineers are not the problem, the bean counters are to blame for most of the product recalls. Cutting corners to save $$$
That is a big mistake!
IMO, the engineers are not the problem, the bean counters are to blame for most of the product recalls. Cutting corners to save $$$
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
CHANGE THE FILTER AND REPLACE SOME OF THE ATF WITH THE PROPER SPEC FLUID!
CHANGE THE FILTER AND REPLACE SOME OF THE ATF WITH THE PROPER SPEC FLUID!
You still didn't answer the most basic questions.
The clutch material is identical in the transmission and TC in the 05 as those before it.
Line pressure is identical on pre 05 units running Dex VI as the later versions.
There is no reason mechanical reason whatsoever not to run Dex VI in a pre 05 GM unit, the Maxlife is the closest thing to Dex VI without actually coming out and labeling it as such.
In fact it does not meet Dex III spec right out of the jug only after the Dex III has sheared down.
My car spec'd Dex III and SG engine oil. By your argument i should go looking for old SG and not run anything later because its not spec. Ludicrous!
Lubrication technology is evolutionary, the benefits of a synthetic transmission fluid with good cold flow characteristics and shear stability cant be denied.
If anything it will improve the longevity of the unit.
Sorry your obviously offended going by your previous vulgar reply that was deleted but the fact you called out posters for giving good info based solely on your opinion makes you the one who is "wrong" (your words).
You claim engineers know best, who do you think at GM back spec'd Dex VI the bean counters?
The clutch material is identical in the transmission and TC in the 05 as those before it.
Line pressure is identical on pre 05 units running Dex VI as the later versions.
There is no reason mechanical reason whatsoever not to run Dex VI in a pre 05 GM unit, the Maxlife is the closest thing to Dex VI without actually coming out and labeling it as such.
In fact it does not meet Dex III spec right out of the jug only after the Dex III has sheared down.
My car spec'd Dex III and SG engine oil. By your argument i should go looking for old SG and not run anything later because its not spec. Ludicrous!
Lubrication technology is evolutionary, the benefits of a synthetic transmission fluid with good cold flow characteristics and shear stability cant be denied.
If anything it will improve the longevity of the unit.
Sorry your obviously offended going by your previous vulgar reply that was deleted but the fact you called out posters for giving good info based solely on your opinion makes you the one who is "wrong" (your words).
You claim engineers know best, who do you think at GM back spec'd Dex VI the bean counters?
Originally Posted By: Trav
You still didn't answer the most basic questions.
The clutch material is identical in the transmission and TC in the 05 as those before it.
Line pressure is identical on pre 05 units running Dex VI as the later versions.
There is no reason mechanical reason whatsoever not to run Dex VI in a pre 05 GM unit, the Maxlife is the closest thing to Dex VI without actually coming out and labeling it as such.
In fact it does not meet Dex III spec right out of the jug only after the Dex III has sheared down.
My car spec'd Dex III and SG engine oil. By your argument i should go looking for old SG and not run anything later because its not spec. Ludicrous!
Lubrication technology is evolutionary, the benefits of a synthetic transmission fluid with good cold flow characteristics and shear stability cant be denied.
If anything it will improve the longevity of the unit.
Sorry your obviously offended going by your previous vulgar reply that was deleted but the fact you called out posters for giving good info based solely on your opinion makes you the one who is "wrong" (your words).
You claim engineers know best, who do you think at GM back spec'd Dex VI the bean counters?
I'm just glad you saw my "offensive" post before it was deleted, mission accomplished.
....no worries Helen
You still didn't answer the most basic questions.
The clutch material is identical in the transmission and TC in the 05 as those before it.
Line pressure is identical on pre 05 units running Dex VI as the later versions.
There is no reason mechanical reason whatsoever not to run Dex VI in a pre 05 GM unit, the Maxlife is the closest thing to Dex VI without actually coming out and labeling it as such.
In fact it does not meet Dex III spec right out of the jug only after the Dex III has sheared down.
My car spec'd Dex III and SG engine oil. By your argument i should go looking for old SG and not run anything later because its not spec. Ludicrous!
Lubrication technology is evolutionary, the benefits of a synthetic transmission fluid with good cold flow characteristics and shear stability cant be denied.
If anything it will improve the longevity of the unit.
Sorry your obviously offended going by your previous vulgar reply that was deleted but the fact you called out posters for giving good info based solely on your opinion makes you the one who is "wrong" (your words).
You claim engineers know best, who do you think at GM back spec'd Dex VI the bean counters?
I'm just glad you saw my "offensive" post before it was deleted, mission accomplished.
....no worries Helen
Last edited:
Yep mission accomplished, you made a fool of yourself.
Just be happy i'm the one who saw it and found it hilarious but not really appropriate for this board and said so when i reported it.
Just be happy i'm the one who saw it and found it hilarious but not really appropriate for this board and said so when i reported it.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
From my understanding, the detergents in Dex VI are better at cleaning the innards of a trans.
Varnish builds up over miles and transmission fluid keeps things clean. Some believe that if you wait to long to change trans fluid, introducing new fluid with fresh detergent will break up deposits that the old fluid wasn't able to get rid of, thus clogging up valve body passages and effectively grenading a trans....
Or that the enhanced friction modifiers of new transmission fluid can actually be too slippery for out wearing out clutches to continue to grab anymore...
Or that your old fluid might have bits of clutch material keeping the things going and that changing it out will grenade the trans.
I'm not saying I believe this, but there's a lot of contradicting stuff out there.
To answer your question more directly, whenever GM or Ford for example have a next generation of fluid, it always has better of everything. "Stronger" might be too specific, more like "better"... but to me, I take that as stronger... at least that's what I read up on Dex VI.
I'm very leery of "newer/better", especially on a trans with FF and 185k miles like the OP.... btw, where is the OP?
My car has 54k miles with its FF and is an '87, I'm in the process of gently changing my fluid via 2 and 3 quart siphons. I plan to do a pan drop/filter change next month as the final step. While I don't necessarily believe the old school hype, I'm being very cautious... you never know. I cannot afford to kill my trans.
Transmissions are magical devices introduced to us by an advanced alien society, DON'T FORGET THAT!
Quote:
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
From my understanding, the detergents in Dex VI are better at cleaning the innards of a trans.
Varnish builds up over miles and transmission fluid keeps things clean. Some believe that if you wait to long to change trans fluid, introducing new fluid with fresh detergent will break up deposits that the old fluid wasn't able to get rid of, thus clogging up valve body passages and effectively grenading a trans....
Or that the enhanced friction modifiers of new transmission fluid can actually be too slippery for out wearing out clutches to continue to grab anymore...
Or that your old fluid might have bits of clutch material keeping the things going and that changing it out will grenade the trans.
I'm not saying I believe this, but there's a lot of contradicting stuff out there.
To answer your question more directly, whenever GM or Ford for example have a next generation of fluid, it always has better of everything. "Stronger" might be too specific, more like "better"... but to me, I take that as stronger... at least that's what I read up on Dex VI.
I'm very leery of "newer/better", especially on a trans with FF and 185k miles like the OP.... btw, where is the OP?
My car has 54k miles with its FF and is an '87, I'm in the process of gently changing my fluid via 2 and 3 quart siphons. I plan to do a pan drop/filter change next month as the final step. While I don't necessarily believe the old school hype, I'm being very cautious... you never know. I cannot afford to kill my trans.
Transmissions are magical devices introduced to us by an advanced alien society, DON'T FORGET THAT!
Originally Posted By: Trav
Just be happy I'm the one who saw it and found it hilarious but not really appropriate for this board and said so when i reported it.
You "ratted" me out? lame!
It's OK, you're a good guy, Trav.
Just be happy I'm the one who saw it and found it hilarious but not really appropriate for this board and said so when i reported it.
You "ratted" me out? lame!
It's OK, you're a good guy, Trav.
For the record, I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I'm simply relaying things I read when doing research for my car when I started on the journey of replacing my trans FF.
I'm not here to explain things to anybody, I'm not an engineer, nor do I claim to be. I was giving my opinion, that is all.
In fact, I corrected my original post later on stating "in my opinion"
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Fair enough.
Perhaps I should've stated "in my opinion" when warning against using it in a pre-2005 GM. I've read some negatives about using it as such. Also, there's a reason fluid manufacturers make different spec fluids for different years; if there wasn't, they would only make dex VI for everybody.
If anybody wants comparisons of fluids and such, feel free to do your own research, "Google is your friend".
Attacking me or my personal knowledge is futile, because I don't possess any on this particular subject, I looked it up online just as any other layman would.
I'm not here to explain things to anybody, I'm not an engineer, nor do I claim to be. I was giving my opinion, that is all.
In fact, I corrected my original post later on stating "in my opinion"
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Fair enough.
Perhaps I should've stated "in my opinion" when warning against using it in a pre-2005 GM. I've read some negatives about using it as such. Also, there's a reason fluid manufacturers make different spec fluids for different years; if there wasn't, they would only make dex VI for everybody.
If anybody wants comparisons of fluids and such, feel free to do your own research, "Google is your friend".
Attacking me or my personal knowledge is futile, because I don't possess any on this particular subject, I looked it up online just as any other layman would.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
...Or that the enhanced friction modifiers of new transmission fluid can actually be too slippery for out wearing out clutches to continue to grab anymore...
...I'm not saying I believe this, but there's a lot of contradicting stuff out there.
..To answer your question more directly, whenever GM or Ford for example have a next generation of fluid, it always has better of everything. "Stronger" might be too specific, more like "better"... but to me, I take that as stronger... at least that's what I read up on Dex VI...
...I'm very leery of "newer/better", especially on a trans with FF and 185k miles like the OP.... btw, where is the OP?
...My car has 54k miles with its FF and is an '87, I'm in the process of gently changing my fluid via 2 and 3 quart siphons. I plan to do a pan drop/filter change next month as the final step. While I don't necessarily believe the old school hype, I'm being very cautious... you never know. I cannot afford to kill my trans.
There is a lot of misinformation out there and perpetuating it here does no good.
Here is some additional information on DexronVI verses DexronIII:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/improvements-in-dexronvi-over-dexroniii.197548/
The friction modifiers are not more "slippery." They have about the same friction coefficients as previous fluids, but are simply more stable over the life of the fluid.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Do NOT use Dex VI!!! Somebody else posted that you can use that, but he is WRONG!! The stuff has stronger detergents and friction modifiers which are not good for anything that doesn't call for it.
Please explain what you mean by stronger?
...Or that the enhanced friction modifiers of new transmission fluid can actually be too slippery for out wearing out clutches to continue to grab anymore...
...I'm not saying I believe this, but there's a lot of contradicting stuff out there.
..To answer your question more directly, whenever GM or Ford for example have a next generation of fluid, it always has better of everything. "Stronger" might be too specific, more like "better"... but to me, I take that as stronger... at least that's what I read up on Dex VI...
...I'm very leery of "newer/better", especially on a trans with FF and 185k miles like the OP.... btw, where is the OP?
...My car has 54k miles with its FF and is an '87, I'm in the process of gently changing my fluid via 2 and 3 quart siphons. I plan to do a pan drop/filter change next month as the final step. While I don't necessarily believe the old school hype, I'm being very cautious... you never know. I cannot afford to kill my trans.
There is a lot of misinformation out there and perpetuating it here does no good.
Here is some additional information on DexronVI verses DexronIII:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/improvements-in-dexronvi-over-dexroniii.197548/
The friction modifiers are not more "slippery." They have about the same friction coefficients as previous fluids, but are simply more stable over the life of the fluid.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
There is a lot of misinformation out there and perpetuating it here does no good.
Here is some additional information on DexronVI verses DexronIII:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/improvements-in-dexronvi-over-dexroniii.197548/
The friction modifiers are not more "slippery." They have about the same friction coefficients as previous fluids, but are simply more stable over the life of the fluid.
The internet is full of misinformation, perhaps as much as any thread on this very forum!
I was giving my opinion, it can be used in any which way you or anybody else chooses. It is NOT my responsibility to verify anything, that is up to the reader to do.
I wouldn't use anything but what my car called for, whether it be oil or spark plugs (another one of those highly debated topics), or whatever!
Edit, and quoting your own thread means nothing, lmao!
I just looked at the link, thinking it was a long and detailed thread of information from several sources, only to find out it's your own thread... brilliant!
I'm NOT saying you're wrong on this matter, just pointing out that's not how its done. Quoting yourself in your own thread is not a source by any means.
There is a lot of misinformation out there and perpetuating it here does no good.
Here is some additional information on DexronVI verses DexronIII:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/improvements-in-dexronvi-over-dexroniii.197548/
The friction modifiers are not more "slippery." They have about the same friction coefficients as previous fluids, but are simply more stable over the life of the fluid.
The internet is full of misinformation, perhaps as much as any thread on this very forum!
I was giving my opinion, it can be used in any which way you or anybody else chooses. It is NOT my responsibility to verify anything, that is up to the reader to do.
I wouldn't use anything but what my car called for, whether it be oil or spark plugs (another one of those highly debated topics), or whatever!
Edit, and quoting your own thread means nothing, lmao!
I just looked at the link, thinking it was a long and detailed thread of information from several sources, only to find out it's your own thread... brilliant!
I'm NOT saying you're wrong on this matter, just pointing out that's not how its done. Quoting yourself in your own thread is not a source by any means.
Last edited:
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Edit, and quoting your own thread means nothing, lmao!
I just looked at the link, thinking it was a long and detailed thread of information from several sources, only to find out it's your own thread... brilliant!
I'm NOT saying you're wrong on this matter, just pointing out that's not how its done. Quoting yourself in your own thread is not a source by any means. At least, I don't think one of my professors would accept that from a student.
First of all, I am not a student thank you.
Secondly, I am making a statement from experience.
Thirdly, I am a professor.
Edit, and quoting your own thread means nothing, lmao!
I just looked at the link, thinking it was a long and detailed thread of information from several sources, only to find out it's your own thread... brilliant!
I'm NOT saying you're wrong on this matter, just pointing out that's not how its done. Quoting yourself in your own thread is not a source by any means. At least, I don't think one of my professors would accept that from a student.
First of all, I am not a student thank you.
Secondly, I am making a statement from experience.
Thirdly, I am a professor.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
First of all, I am not a student thank you.
Secondly, I am making a statement from experience.
Thirdly, I am a professor.
oh yeah?
We are ALL students, a real professor would know this since there is something called "continuing education".
We all have something to learn, hence we are all students and continue to learn new things, Professor MolaKule. Unless, that is you think you know everything.
And especially somebody who supposedly teaches would understand about quoting yourself as a viable source. So silly!
This whole thread has turned into a something else, probably doing the OP no good at this point... silly internet arguments, what a waste of a perfectly good Memorial day.
72 degrees and sunny here in NYC, I'm going out to enjoy it!
First of all, I am not a student thank you.
Secondly, I am making a statement from experience.
Thirdly, I am a professor.
oh yeah?
We are ALL students, a real professor would know this since there is something called "continuing education".
We all have something to learn, hence we are all students and continue to learn new things, Professor MolaKule. Unless, that is you think you know everything.
And especially somebody who supposedly teaches would understand about quoting yourself as a viable source. So silly!
This whole thread has turned into a something else, probably doing the OP no good at this point... silly internet arguments, what a waste of a perfectly good Memorial day.
72 degrees and sunny here in NYC, I'm going out to enjoy it!
Last edited:
- Status