Greed and short term thinking. That's what happened in CA.
And now the cost to our society is higher than ever. And harder to solve.
Bring back asylums - interesting perspectives
- Thread starter OVERKILL
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And now the cost to our society is higher than ever. And harder to solve.
One of my company VPs and I were talking about this issue as he's experienced it first hand when he was working at a shop near a mental ward during college. Summed up, there was zero proper planning and the ones who had nowhere to go was literally let out on the street and told good luck.
I'm all for having long term inpatient mental facilities. Unfortunately we would have to figure out how to stop the abuse that caused the deinstitutionalization of mental wards, along with figuring out how to pay for the services with making the population agree with paying the taxes for services, and the corruption of said institutions.
With that said, gov ran health facilities are usually extremely poor if the VA is indicative of anything.
I'm all for having long term inpatient mental facilities. Unfortunately we would have to figure out how to stop the abuse that caused the deinstitutionalization of mental wards, along with figuring out how to pay for the services with making the population agree with paying the taxes for services, and the corruption of said institutions.
With that said, gov ran health facilities are usually extremely poor if the VA is indicative of anything.
Perhaps transferred from the state to local government. Another thing is that corrections officers are cheaper than MD's and nurses.
OVERKILL
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The abuse aspect is covered in the linked thread, apparently there is considerable proof that this was massively overblown as part of the agenda to shut them down.
We have some world-class health facilities here in Canada (along with some not so world class ones) that are publicly owned and operated, so that doesn't always have to be synonymous with poor quality of care.
The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) in Toronto is one of the few remaining institutions from the asylum era. It is at capacity, constantly, but offers the type of services that should be available everywhere in the West.
Whether your looking at prisons or asylums, you'll need an MD to do the prescribing, some PhD psychologists to do the assessments and at least LPNs to do the dispensing and the monitoring with these drugs.
The correction officers role is merely to manage the inmates and nothing to do with mental health, although these inmates will often require a lot more management than those in the population who are not mentally ill.
If only.
I think we need them... some folks don't need to be jailed, a facility like this would be much better.
I know the one in Athens, Ohio, was turned over to Ohio University, who has been rehabbing the buildings over the last 30 years or so for additional classroom space, they turned the main building into an art Museum, etc...
but back in the day, it had it's own power plant, dairy, farm, water/sewer system, etc. it was across the (Hocking) River from Town, and the main campus, and up on a high hill...
Here in Lima we Have (Had) 2 prisons that share a Campus, the Newer one is still in use, the older one was closed probably 20 years ago, but was Originally the "State Hospital for the Criminally Insane" it too had it's own self contained systems for Power, Water, they grew their own food... today the remains of their water works is just slowly rotting into the ground. the Dam they put in to make a mini reservoir on Sugar Creek is mostly, if not fully silted up. pump house starting to fall in on itself.
The Land that was my Family's Farm is Right off that property, and the Family Church Across the Road from the water works.... a Few years back, during some renovations at the Church, they found a Random old Water Line, with power Cables right along side that weren't hooked up to anything... Turns out the Church used to get it's power and Water from the State hospital across the Road.
I know the one in Athens, Ohio, was turned over to Ohio University, who has been rehabbing the buildings over the last 30 years or so for additional classroom space, they turned the main building into an art Museum, etc...
but back in the day, it had it's own power plant, dairy, farm, water/sewer system, etc. it was across the (Hocking) River from Town, and the main campus, and up on a high hill...
Here in Lima we Have (Had) 2 prisons that share a Campus, the Newer one is still in use, the older one was closed probably 20 years ago, but was Originally the "State Hospital for the Criminally Insane" it too had it's own self contained systems for Power, Water, they grew their own food... today the remains of their water works is just slowly rotting into the ground. the Dam they put in to make a mini reservoir on Sugar Creek is mostly, if not fully silted up. pump house starting to fall in on itself.
The Land that was my Family's Farm is Right off that property, and the Family Church Across the Road from the water works.... a Few years back, during some renovations at the Church, they found a Random old Water Line, with power Cables right along side that weren't hooked up to anything... Turns out the Church used to get it's power and Water from the State hospital across the Road.
Owen Lucas
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This is all by design and its a power grab. Welcome to anarcho-tyranny. Many cities have voted for this. Most of these voters have nothing to lose and nothing to gain so might as well see the world burn.
Anarcho-tyranny is a political concept describing a system where the state simultaneously permits or enables anarchy—such as failing to enforce laws against criminals, disorder, or certain privileged groups—while exercising tyrannical control over law-abiding citizens through excessive regulations, surveillance, or punishments for minor infractions. Coined by paleoconservative writer Samuel T. Francis in the 1990s, it argues that governments abandon core duties like maintaining public order and protecting citizens from real threats, instead focusing on inventing new "crimes" or over-enforcing rules on the compliant middle class to expand control and extract resources.
This is already happening in the UK and Germany where critics of rapists are getting more time in jail vs the actual rapists (Germany)
Comedians and social media users simply posting an image of a Union Jack or non violent criticism of the government go to jail while child grooming gang inquiries and questioning gets memory holed.
Hopefully the sick road ahead of us can be avoided.
The British were right in sending off all the criminals to Australia. Don't worry about prison costs or in the current situation medical care. Nature will sort itself out. El Salvador anyone?
We need mental institutions. And more [better run] prisons. Allowing them to roam the streets without care is cruel for them and their victims of the crimes they commit. Enough is enough.
My gpa and two uncles worked at a Missouri state hospital, all 3 retired from it. My youngest uncle was in housekeeping was often called to assist with difficult patients. He’s fairly big but still got hurt at least once a year. Makes me wonder what happened to those patients after it closed. It’s unfortunate but some needed to be there, medicine is advancing all the time so under care who knows they could straighten out. My other gpa spent a little time there to get his head straight so for some it’s not permanent.
Sure. Bring back institutions.
They were all ethically operated with patients best interests at heart, right? Right?
Sure, asylums could be brought back and run ethically, and they could be run without additional cost to the taxpayer. However, this is America, and public safety nets aren't worthwhile.
They were all ethically operated with patients best interests at heart, right? Right?
Sure, asylums could be brought back and run ethically, and they could be run without additional cost to the taxpayer. However, this is America, and public safety nets aren't worthwhile.
Owen Lucas
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With current legislation and activism, too many roadblocks, it would be regulatorily impossible. Greed would also make it so costly that the effort would resemble the homelessness "solution" in CA. Where billions disappear into housing the homeless and yet the state is #1 in homelessness..
There's no single pill or cocktail to fix many of these people unfortunately. As mentioned earlier, many of them won't take their meds anyway. Lobotomies would do the job, but that isn't "ethical".
Are jails operated ethically?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few. Based on current standards, it's impossible to give the mentally ill adequate care.
At some point we need to call a spade a spade and just euthanasia the unredeemable.
That or send em to El Salvador / Liberia for a fraction of the cost.
It would be a win win.
Oh, and get rid of judicial immunity. It's what allows judges to not incarcerate or institutionalize super offenders in the 1st place without any consequences. Good luck with that though.
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In the Twitter/X post? I don't have an account to read it.
The USA's mental crisis help...well...I do know, from a few very close folks to me, that sometimes you were better off not calling the suicide hotline in the first place....
I just hope for the best and that we do this right.
The answer is as simple as it is brutal. The cost of a civil population is one that society must bear. Civil behavior is in fact, the #1 responsibility of society. Even before military defense.
In ancient times, broken humans were regularly sent on their way, often quite rapidly. Today, a cage of some sort is seen as a more civilized option. That's the path we've chosen, horrible $ or not.
The cost of failure here is utter collapse.
Jesus Christ
Most cities buy a 1 way Greyhound bus pass to somewhere 200 miles away just to get rid of these people.
Many appear on Soft White Underbelly channel.
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OVERKILL
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If you were close to Canada I'd invite you to tour CAMH. I spent a month working there and left understanding what we lost when we were tricked and gaslighted into closing them down.
It's not just the US, it's the West in general. We (remember, I'm in Canada) all did the same thing here, and it was really stupid. Unfortunately the cost to undo that mistake means that things must get much, MUCH worse I fear, before it's considered worthwhile.
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I'll turn myself in without incident
OVERKILL
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I have to ask, are you a believer in eugenics by chance?
Medications alone have proven not to be able to replace institutionalization along with “inside” medications to manage mental illnesses. The stuff they can prescribe to those in general society who need both structure and medication pales in comparison to what Drs. can give when one is under medical attention 24/7.
