Bring back asylums - interesting perspectives

Homelessness is too big of a cash cow right now, so stopping it is not really beneficial for the people involved.

California spent something like $24billion since 2019 to “do something” about homelessness, there is no slowing that thing down any time soon.
Yep, we are spending millions locally, as I've noted, to "address" (not solve) the problem. It's become a burgeoning cottage industry where the terminally empathetic can shower the destitute and deranged with ovations of tolerance and catch the light just right in the media shots to showcase their unrivaled virtue. Narcissism? How dare you! says the career activist aboard her private yacht attempting to sail into an active military conflict while broadcasting her "plight" on Tik-Tok...
 
As I said, I expect things will need to get dramatically worse before the idea of bringing back asylums is actually considered again.
I don't know how much worse it can get when essentially the current homlesness/drug situation in middle class areas has shown, IMHO, that they can tolerate this degeneracy.

This has been an issue in inner cities for a while, but no one cares about the EBT class, these are normal "poor people" living conditions. Now you have people in Seattle leaving their trunks open when shopping to signal their vehicle is empty and acquiesce in other ways to live around the degenerates.

Homelessness is too big of a cash cow right now, so stopping it is not really beneficial for the people involved.

California spent something like $24billion since 2019 to “do something” about homelessness, there is no slowing that thing down any time soon.

Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised that the DOJ looks into this eventually.
 
I don't know how much worse it can get when essentially the current homlesness/drug situation in middle class areas has shown, IMHO, that they can tolerate this degeneracy.

This has been an issue in inner cities for a while, but no one cares about the EBT class, these are normal "poor people" living conditions. Now you have people in Seattle leaving their trunks open when shopping to signal their vehicle is empty and acquiesce in other ways to live around the degenerates.



Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised that the DOJ looks into this eventually.
People have to get mad. Currently, as you note, people seem to be just getting exasperated and capitulating to the overtakers. The people with the power will need them climbing into their gated communities I suspect before "hey, why aren't these people in institutions?" becomes a hot enough topic that we see it revisited :(
 
Years ago I was reading an opinion piece which suggested that OTC medication was the demise of these hospitals as they were becoming cost prohibitive and having patients take their meds and participate in society was a better outcome. The problem of course is when the patient refuses to take their meds.
I've worked hospital security for 2.5 years and we get a few regulars. A couple of them are homeless a couple of them are not. They aren't violent so you can't take them to jail, but they can't watch themselves. My neighbor behind me had this very issue with his mom. He came home for lunch and she was trying to cook something but had flames shooting towards the ceiling. From reading asylums have rampant elder and patient abuse.
 
Obviously this can be a complicated subject. Primarily because people are complicated creatures. Not a lot of one-size fits all solutions are out there that work.

I have close family that had some significant emotional and phycological needs, and coming from their care-giver perspective, its an unbelievable struggle. I would like to see facilities in a place that could be more similar to a hospital. Triage, short term care, out-patient care and long term care in easy to find places. When our incident hit, I had no idea what to do. I brought my person to the ER, which in hindsight worked but was not at all a pleasant or easy task. The ER was treating based on what they know - physical ailments. The mental ailment treatment was a locked room and pills. Traumatic is best word to describe the situation. Pretty much for everyone involved.

This experience has been my yardstick of difficulty in life. I made it through that, so I can do anything.

Asylums have been viewed as places of torture, pain and horror for so long that I don't know if the general public can get it out of their head. But there is such a huge need for them, not just for the people that need the direct permanent attention, but also for loved ones and those that may need a steady hand to get themselves upright again.
 
People have to get mad. Currently, as you note, people seem to be just getting exasperated and capitulating to the overtakers. The people with the power will need them climbing into their gated communities I suspect before "hey, why aren't these people in institutions?" becomes a hot enough topic that we see it revisited :(
I see no will to attempt (aka fund) change. If and when that time comes, there will be mistakes. Solution is rarely achieved on a straight line, especially regarding the human condition. I am all too familiar with the other side of life and fully understand I am one of the lucky, of the very few lucky.

What can I do? I want to do my part; for that I am responsible. I have significant $$ in my will and trust towards this end. And want to do more. Now.
 
Obviously this can be a complicated subject. Primarily because people are complicated creatures. Not a lot of one-size fits all solutions are out there that work.

I have close family that had some significant emotional and phycological needs, and coming from their care-giver perspective, its an unbelievable struggle. I would like to see facilities in a place that could be more similar to a hospital. Triage, short term care, out-patient care and long term care in easy to find places. When our incident hit, I had no idea what to do. I brought my person to the ER, which in hindsight worked but was not at all a pleasant or easy task. The ER was treating based on what they know - physical ailments. The mental ailment treatment was a locked room and pills. Traumatic is best word to describe the situation. Pretty much for everyone involved.

This experience has been my yardstick of difficulty in life. I made it through that, so I can do anything.

Asylums have been viewed as places of torture, pain and horror for so long that I don't know if the general public can get it out of their head. But there is such a huge need for them, not just for the people that need the direct permanent attention, but also for loved ones and those that may need a steady hand to get themselves upright again.

From reading asylums have rampant elder and patient abuse.
The stigma, in some cases justified, in others complete fabrication; the "Hollywood"-ization of it, intentionally crafted to enhance the narrative of the day, certainly means there are obstacles to overcome here.

I've mentioned it a couple of times in this thread, but we have one asylum that never closed. It expanded its services through amalgamation and rebranded, so we don't call it an "asylum" anymore, despite its long history of being exactly that. This is what I think of when I speak of bringing them back, not the "classic" asylums of decades ago, but a modern incarnation focused on addressing everything from the problems created by shutting down their predecessors, to the modern epidemic of substance abuse and homelessness that are hopelessly intertwined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Addiction_and_Mental_Health

Queen Street Mental Health Centre​


Queen Street Asylum for the Insane, 1910

The Provincial Lunatic Asylum opened on 26 January 1850. It was subsequently renamed Asylum for the Insane, then Hospital for the Insane, then Ontario Hospital (1919), and then the Queen Street Mental Health Centre (1966). It had also been called the Toronto Lunatic Asylum and 999 Queen Street West.

https://www.camh.ca/
 
I see no will to attempt (aka fund) change. If and when that time comes, there will be mistakes. Solution is rarely achieved on a straight line, especially regarding the human condition. I am all too familiar with the other side of life and fully understand I am one of the lucky, of the very few lucky.

What can I do? I want to do my part; for that I am responsible. I have significant $$ in my will and trust towards this end. And want to do more. Now.
I would suggest advocating for facilities like CAMH (linked above) that have a track record of being able to address these problems, offering a full spectrum of care specifically targeting these conditions. We need hundreds more of these in Canada and there needs to be regulation change as well, to allow families to involuntarily commit people that are so out of it that they can't commit themselves.
 
On the flip side, the best training I've had was at an abandoned mental facility that was converted to a MOUT training center. Very creepy Silent Hill vibes, which made training at night with nvgs and lasers even cooler.
 
But the cost to the public is the same.
It's not really the same if you consider that people who leave in-patient treatment facilities have actually received treatment for their issues, have been less likely to have been abused by hardened criminals and hopefully have a better chance to be a functional member of society and less likely to be a burden on everyone than if they leave as an ex-con with lots of untreated issues.

Holy run-on sentences, Batman!
 
It's not really the same if you consider that people who leave in-patient treatment facilities have actually received treatment for their issues, have been less likely to have been abused by hardened criminals and hopefully have a better chance to be a functional member of society and less likely to be a burden on everyone than if they leave as an ex-con with lots of untreated issues.

Holy run-on sentences, Batman!
Yes, reminds me of the "Portugal model" that I've seen decriminalization advocates harp on about. I watched a special about this model, think it was on Discovery Channel, and not surprisingly, these advocates totally ignore 90% of the model, focusing on one aspect: decriminalization, while ignoring that the people don't get charged with a criminal offence, but are instead moved into a treatment facility like CAMH where they spend mandatory time being rehabilitated and then are slowly reintegrated into society, followed extremely closely by a case worker to ensure they don't relapse.

The way the advocates describe it, they just decriminalized drugs and everything was awesome, but that's not in any way what actually happened.
 
The goal is to help people in need. If society succeeds in doing so, even on a small level, all of society benefits.

But for Grace there go I...
As I've expressed in other threads, I'm not a high empathy individual (quite the opposite), I'd probably best describe myself as empathy challenged. But I am extremely technical and analytical and I understand cruelty and what we are doing is cruel. This is pandered under the guise of compassion by narcissists that want to appear to be noble and virtuous but are in fact destroying the very people they claim to be advocating for by not only allowing, but enabling their self-destruction.
 
Pharmaceuticals and jails have replaced institutional behavioral health.

Also, lawyers are not really involved in the process of getting into a mental health asylum, doctors are. Then lawyers will lose a lot of business. Also the crime rate will drastically drops down which means lower budget for police and prisons the following years.
Prisons are one huge legal/government business for money laundering.
 
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As a former state correctional officer, I can tell you that in state prison systems nurses or other medical staff, not correctional officers, dispense medication to inmates.

Dr. Thomas Szasz's positions were more nuanced than many people believe today when they criticize his writings, particularly the book The Myth of Mental Illness. He noted that much that was labeled "mental illness" was actually people getting away with behavior that got them things, such as attention, sympathy, money, etc.

He didn't quite phrase it this way, but he certainly would have agreed with my observation: notice that people who "hear voices" never hear the voices telling them to do good things. No, it's always bad things. They don't say, "Help your neighbor," but instead, "Hurt your neighbor." That should tell you that many of the claims of mental illness are a crock. It's people seeking excuses for bad behavior. We already have places for those who behave badly, namely prisons. We're just too afraid to use them for this group.
 
As a former state correctional officer, I can tell you that in state prison systems nurses or other medical staff, not correctional officers, dispense medication to inmates.

Dr. Thomas Szasz's positions were more nuanced than many people believe today when they criticize his writings, particularly the book The Myth of Mental Illness. He noted that much that was labeled "mental illness" was actually people getting away with behavior that got them things, such as attention, sympathy, money, etc.

He didn't quite phrase it this way, but he certainly would have agreed with my observation: notice that people who "hear voices" never hear the voices telling them to do good things. No, it's always bad things. They don't say, "Help your neighbor," but instead, "Hurt your neighbor." That should tell you that many of the claims of mental illness are a crock. It's people seeking excuses for bad behavior. We already have places for those who behave badly, namely prisons. We're just too afraid to use them for this group.
Valid points. I like how the state of Montana has a verdict of "Guilty but insane" instead of "Not guilty by reason of insanity."

Lots of people in prison have characteristics of mentally illness but prison is still probably the most appropriate to keep them.
 
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