Brembo/EBC Rotors Really Better??

doitmyself

doitmyself

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I've been following the recent coated rotors threads in anticipation of a front brake job next month(s). At 6 years, 80K miles my OEM rotors are reusable regarding wear, but it is a coin toss if the rust belt vane corrosion would last through a new set of pads.

Delivered pair costs: Raybestos Element 3's - $56. Brembo/EBC - $85/$90. OEM MOPAR - $140 (one ebay pic shows US made?). The other brands similar to Raybestos about $65 +/- delivered (Wagner, AC Delco).

I want to say that value is more important than actual cost. I used to buy AZ, CarQuest, or Advanced Auto rotors with o.k. results. I.m leaning towards the mid-priced EBC or Brembo, hoping that the metallurgy, fit/finish, longevity is better??

1.) Is the Brembo clear coat UV finish any good? https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/en/products/innovation/uv-coating

2.) EBC states " superior G3000 gray iron" - someone explain this please.

3.) Raybestos lifetime warranted vs. EBC 6 months/10K (defects only).

Opinions?? Thank you.
 
Brembo? Nothing comes close to Brembo!
EBC? I owned multiple products they made, and they are performance oriented.
I currently have on Tiguan Brembo rotors with EBC Red Stuff pads.
On SIenna: EBC ultimax rotors (Brembo does not make it for SIenna), and EBC Greeen Stuff pads. It is absolute improvement over Toyota OE set up.
Brembo pads are not something special unless OE. But that is available only on sports cars or few SUV's.
Edit: Brembo are probably Made in Italy (it is Italian company).
EBC are UK based, and all products I bought from them were Made in UK.
 
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Originally Posted by doitmyself
I've been following the recent coated rotors threads in anticipation of a front brake job next month(s). At 6 years, 80K miles my OEM rotors are reusable regarding wear, but it is a coin toss if the rust belt vane corrosion would last through a new set of pads.

Delivered pair costs: Raybestos Element 3's - $56. Brembo/EBC - $85/$90. OEM MOPAR - $140 (one ebay pic shows US made?). The other brands similar to Raybestos about $65 +/- delivered (Wagner, AC Delco).

I want to say that value is more important than actual cost. I used to buy AZ, CarQuest, or Advanced Auto rotors with o.k. results. I.m leaning towards the mid-priced EBC or Brembo, hoping that the metallurgy, fit/finish, longevity is better??

1.) Is the Brembo clear coat UV finish any good? https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/en/products/innovation/uv-coating

2.) EBC states " superior G3000 gray iron" - someone explain this please.

3.) Raybestos lifetime warranted vs. EBC 6 months/10K (defects only).

Opinions?? Thank you.



G3000 is an SAE standard grade of gray cast iron, 30,000 psi tensile strength. Gray cast iron is preferred for brake disks in general because of its high thermal conductivity relative to other cast irons. The specification leaves it open for individual foundries to make alloy additions to optimize the material for different applications. I have run Brembo rotors on my Corvette track car, and didn't have any trouble with heat checking.

Rotors are pretty cheap these days. For daily driver duty, I just replace rotors whenever I do pads. I hate the thought of running rotors that have been through 4-5 Michigan winters that have flaking corrosion in the vanes. Rust is not very good for strength or heat transfer. GM started doing a treatment on their production rotors about 6 years ago called ferritic nitro carburizing that is supposed to improve hardness and corrosion resistance. If you get AC Delco rotors they may have that treatment. It leaves the rotor with a dull grey-white appearance.

http://www.fncbrakerotors.com/index.html
 
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Thanks.

A_Harmon, the AC Delcos tend to be their "professional" line, which some sites show as one step below OEM GM line? Maybe it's similar to how sometimes Motorcraft parts are not the same as OEM Ford parts. I don't know if your example would apply to the ACDelco professional line. I'm leaning towards your opinion about the vane rust also. They won't last another five years in Michigan.

bilt460 - my guess is that the use of UV is just a marketing term more than suggesting UV protection. Each company seems to need a catch phrase to hook people. https://www.brembo.com/en/ComunicatiStampa/2012/Brembo_UV_Coated_Discs_EN.pdf It seems UV is used to fuse the coating on???? : " the coat hardening is performed by UV irradiation and high temperatures" ...This sales sheet claims double the salt test longevity vs. Geomet 240 hrs. vs. 120 hrs.

My questions still exist - is the quality of the EBC or Brembo make them a better value than the Raybestos level of rotor? An extra $50 over 5 years is negligible IF I get better reliability. I have no experience with EBC and Brembo.


EDIT: found this thread, but no follow up .... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4408357/Brembo%27s_UV_Coated_Rotors
 
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Originally Posted by doitmyself
It seems UV is used to fuse the coating on???? : " the coat hardening is performed by UV irradiation and high temperatures"

Sounds like powder coat, perhaps epoxy. I wonder how well it stays on over thousands of heat cycles?
 
Hard to say which brands are better. I have Stop Techs drilled and slotted rotors in the front of the 05 Avalon and EBC slotted in the rear. All have Akebono ProAct pads all for 4 years and just did an inspection. Both pads and rotors are in excellent condition for daily driving in 1 hour stop and go traffic one way, everyday.

Most YouTube mechanics use NAPA, Advanced Auto, Autozone pads and rotors. Eric O of South Main Auto Channel uses those on customer's cars. For his own personal vehicles he uses OEM Toyota and Hondas. Jim the Car Guy in New Jersey uses NAPA.

My point is use whatever works for you and remember Raybestos warranty is for failure only not wear and tear. When the time comes for our 14 Tacoma to get a brake job, I'm probably going with EBC discs, Akebono pads in the front and hopefully EBC makes drums for the rear.
 
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Thanks.

A_Harmon, the AC Delcos tend to be their "professional" line, which some sites show as one step below OEM GM line? Maybe it's similar to how sometimes Motorcraft parts are not the same as OEM Ford parts. I don't know if your example would apply to the ACDelco professional line. I'm leaning towards your opinion about the vane rust also. They won't last another five years in Michigan.

bilt460 - my guess is that the use of UV is just a marketing term more than suggesting UV protection. Each company seems to need a catch phrase to hook people. https://www.brembo.com/en/ComunicatiStampa/2012/Brembo_UV_Coated_Discs_EN.pdf It seems UV is used to fuse the coating on???? : " the coat hardening is performed by UV irradiation and high temperatures" ...This sales sheet claims double the salt test longevity vs. Geomet 240 hrs. vs. 120 hrs.

My questions still exist - is the quality of the EBC or Brembo make them a better value than the Raybestos level of rotor? An extra $50 over 5 years is negligible IF I get better reliability. I have no experience with EBC and Brembo.


EDIT: found this thread, but no follow up .... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4408357/Brembo%27s_UV_Coated_Rotors

Yes. It is hard to make absolute conclusion as I am not sure which measurement is available.
But, considering Brembo's experience in racing, considering that they are OE on Porsche, BMW M, Ferrari, Dodge SRT etc. and Raybestos are not, it is pretty good indication of quality.
EBC is present in various competitions in Europe (not sure here in the US), but they are of high quality.
Both will have increased carbon make up. How resistant to rust? Do not know as I live in pretty dry state. I know that Brembo's and EBC do not have any rust anywhere here in CO where I live on my vehicles. I lived in Alabama where humidity is of course extreme, and owned VW's there and OE rotors and replacement ones (ATE) never had issue with excessive rust.
 
Originally Posted by doitmyself
I've been following the recent coated rotors threads in anticipation of a front brake job next month(s). At 6 years, 80K miles my OEM rotors are reusable regarding wear, but it is a coin toss if the rust belt vane corrosion would last through a new set of pads.

Delivered pair costs: Raybestos Element 3's - $56. Brembo/EBC - $85/$90. OEM MOPAR - $140 (one ebay pic shows US made?). The other brands similar to Raybestos about $65 +/- delivered (Wagner, AC Delco).


Are you sure those are really Element3 rotors? I ordered Element3's from RockAuto and received Raybestos RPT's. The Raybestos tech support guy indicated the Element3 rotors don't even exist yet, they sure don't for my application.
 
Thanks for that reminder, Hangfire. That might explain why RockAuto is selling my "Element3" (RPT) for only $21 each. You probably remember this thread from last October: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4897684/2 ... I'm also aware of your recent thread: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5056482/1 It seems that RPT is their low to midline rotor with a coating on it. Their premium rotor is/was the Advanced Technology with painted hat and edge.

I had been looking for new coated rotors with Akebono ProActs or Raybestos EHT pads. Now, I'm leaning towards trying the EBC kit that includes rotors and Ultimax2 pads (GG) for only $110 delivered. https://thmotorsports.com/4250844-ebc-s1kf1441-big-brake-kits

Thanks everyone.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Brembo? Nothing comes close to Brembo!
EBC? I owned multiple products they made, and they are performance oriented.
I currently have on Tiguan Brembo rotors with EBC Red Stuff pads.
On SIenna: EBC ultimax rotors (Brembo does not make it for SIenna), and EBC Greeen Stuff pads. It is absolute improvement over Toyota OE set up.
Brembo pads are not something special unless OE. But that is available only on sports cars or few SUV's.
Edit: Brembo are probably Made in Italy (it is Italian company).
EBC are UK based, and all products I bought from them were Made in UK.


Brembo replacement rotors for vehicles not OE equipped with Brembo brakes are made in China.....Another great company diluting their brand to make a few pennies.......
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger


Brembo replacement rotors for vehicles not OE equipped with Brembo brakes are made in China.....Another great company diluting their brand to make a few pennies.......

Brembo at one point made aftermarket rotors in Italy and Mexico for cars that didn't have them as OE - Bradi was their "white-box" brand. They were good rotors.
 
I thought that I would share this information that I found on a Japanese brake companies website:

In normal braking process the brake pad material travels to rotor surface to create the friendly braking layer. The hardness is most important (but not the only) physical property is responsible for this process. SAE J431 G3000 standards for the automotive brake rotor and drum includes Hardness range by Barinell from 187 to 241. (See below Rotors material quality)


Non abrasive Ceramic Brake pads are more susceptible to low hardness compared to relatively soft metallic brake pad formulation. The hardness for Ceramic pad should stay above 220 by Brinell scale. For example, most of OEM rotors are produced with hardness above 240 by Brinell. But, unfortunately, aftermarket rotors have hardness well below it.

Rotors are usually made of gray iron due to its superior heat handling and damping (vibration absorption) character. The quality are depends on combination of Physical properties, Chemical composition and Inferior microstructure.


Physical properties​

Specified by SAE J431 G3000 standards for the automotive brake rotor and drum includes:

  1. Hardness by Barinell: 187-241,
  2. Minimum tensile strength of 30,000 psi

Chemical composition G3000 gray iron:​

  • Carbon 3.10%-3.40%,
  • Silicon 1.90%-2.30%,
  • Manganese 0.60%-0.90%,
  • Sulfur Max 0.15%,
  • Phosphorus Max 0.15%,
  • Total Carbon equivalent of 3.9%-4.15

Physical properties​

image3.jpg

Pearlitic microstructure = the graphite distribution and matrix structure of the cast iron. This matrix should be predominantly pearlite, with not more than 5% ferrite and less than 1% cementite. This matrix should be predominantly pearlite, with not more than 5% ferrite and less than 1% cementite. Pearlitic microstructure = the graphite distribution and matrix structure of the cast iron. This matrix should be predominantly pearlite, with not more than 5% ferrite and less than 1% cementite. This matrix should be predominantly pearlite, with not more than 5% ferrite and less than 1% cementite.

SB NAGAMOCHI https://www.sbparts.net/about
 
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I found some Brembo OE Rotors (NOS) made in Italy for one of my cars. I am looking for OE Rotors for the rear of an Integra. The newer Brembos are Chinese. I am looking for Hardness factor specs for different Rotors and they are hard to find. Show me some Aftermarket Rotors with a Hardness Factor over 240?
 
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doitmyself said:
I've been following the recent coated rotors threads in anticipation of a front brake job next month(s). At 6 years, 80K miles my OEM rotors are reusable regarding wear, but it is a coin toss if the rust belt vane corrosion would last through a new set of pads.

Delivered pair costs: Raybestos Element 3's - $56. Brembo/EBC - $85/$90. OEM MOPAR - $140 (one ebay pic shows US made?). The other brands similar to Raybestos about $65 +/- delivered (Wagner, AC Delco).

I want to say that value is more important than actual cost. I used to buy AZ, CarQuest, or Advanced Auto rotors with o.k. results. I.m leaning towards the mid-priced EBC or Brembo, hoping that the metallurgy, fit/finish, longevity is better??

1.) Is the Brembo clear coat UV finish any good? https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/en/products/innovation/uv-coating

2.) EBC states " superior G3000 gray iron" - someone explain this please.

3.) Raybestos lifetime warranted vs. EBC 6 months/10K (defects only).

Opinions?? Thank you.
Click to expand...

1) I don't know. It's my first winter with them.

2) It's based on ASTM A159 and SAE J431 which defines the chemical composition and physical properties of grey iron alloy

3) Warranty is only as good as the company administering the warranty.

I went with Bremo Xtra because Rockauto had them for cheap, compared to the usual made-in-China Centric/Stoptech rotors I normally get.
 
Powerstop Geomet coated rotors seem to hold up the best. Any other Geomet-coated rotor should be just as good.

Wagner's E-coated rotors are also good.
 
Brembo.... fancy on a fancy car.... nothing special for OE replacement daily driver parts. I won't even consider them unless they're OE equipped on a performance/sports car. Jeep Patriot isn't a performance car.... not an SRT version, eh?

After 7 years, 80k miles.... I wouldn't even consider reusing rotors, unless the new rotors would cause financial hardship. OE rotors... if equivalent to the factory assembly line, should last just as long if a 'quality' brake job is performed.

I'd use Bosch, Wagner, OE, or Raybestos Performance rotors. Rockauto has the Wagner, Mopar, and Raybestos at a fair price.

For pads, again, if you're happy with OE pads, then hopefully the replacement parts are equivalent to the factory pads. Otherwise, I'd use the ASP, OEX, or EHT pads, all also available on Rockauto.

Regardless of the pads/rotors, installation attention to detail is a must. Most that complain about pads/rotors/calipers should really complain about the quality of the tech doing the install. Attention to detail is critically important. Don't complain about the parts if the installer took shortcuts. Hub should be spotless. Rotors should be cleaned. Runout should be checked.
Calipers need rebuilding, or cleaning/repinning/sealing/greasing at proper points with proper grease....or simply replacing. All 4 corners need a thorough bleed even when doing the front or rear only. All needs to be torqued.
 
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