Brass slivers in oil. 3.0 V6 Accord.

[Gasbuggy]

Did an oil change in the trusty 06 Accord last night and I had a noticeable amount of what looked like 24k gold slivers (brass) in the oil. No chunks. They were very skinny but a bit long, some were about 2mm, the thickness of a Nickle. They were not magnetic. I know everyone loves pictures but I just could not get my phone to take a good enough one. I'm considering running the used oil through a PPG paint filter to see what I catch. I had a Fram Ultra filter on there, I would think it would do a good job collecting particles this size. The Fram is still on the car since I usually change the oil around 6000 miles and go 2 changes per filter change. I have a filter-cutting tool in my cart on Amazon, if anyone has one they like, let me know. And if anyone knows what is likely producing brass in a J series Honda V6, I'm curious. The car is babied until thoroughly warmed up. But it does see WOT more than most I'm sure.

I'm not blaming oil but for anecdotal info, I drained out Castrol Magnatec 10w30. It looked and smelled good, didn't burn a drop. But this was the first time the car ever had Castrol in it. The many changes have been with Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 or Mobil 0w30AFE (winter runs). (I have a ton of 10w30s from prior clearance buys). From a prior UOA, I know this 3.0 V6 produces a good bit of fuel dilution and threw higher wear metals running M1 5w20.

To pile on, when undoing the oil pan bolt, which was not overtightened, the outermost thread on the pan came off. This oil pan was abused by a dealer or someone early in its life. We've had it since it had about 28000 miles and the oil pan bolt threads have always felt tweaked. It has tight and loose spots as you untighten or tighten the drain plug.

I the next time I change the oil I will probably put a Fumoto valve in there so I don't keep taxing the threads.

 

[ctechbob]

That doesn't sound great, but the J-Series isn't known for just all of a sudden blowing chunks, at least not our generation. I know some of the later ones had bearing issues, but really, they live forever with decent maintenance.

I'd be interested to see what's in the filter if anything.

Even when my wife tried to grenade her 2000 Accord by running it without oil, the after-effects were lots of glitter, but no chunks. Certainly nothing as thick as a nickel.

You sure it's not chunks of the pan from the buggered-up drain hole?

Also not sure why you'd be getting high fuel dilution, something doesn't seem quite right.

 

[demarpaint]

That doesn't sound great, but the J-Series isn't known for just all of a sudden blowing chunks, at least not our generation. I know some of the later ones had bearing issues, but really, they live forever with decent maintenance.

I'd be interested to see what's in the filter if anything.

Even when my wife tried to grenade her 2000 Accord by running it without oil, the after-effects were lots of glitter, but no chunks. Certainly nothing as thick as a nickel.

You sure it's not chunks of the pan from the buggered-up drain hole?

Also not sure why you'd be getting high fuel dilution, something doesn't seem quite right.

You're right, it's odd. But I have my doubts about the slivers of what appears to be brass coming from the messed up drain plug. I'd be looking at the fuel dilution as a possible cause. WOT a lot especially if the engine hasn't reached full operating temperature isn't helping matters either.

 

[Astro14]

Other than, perhaps, valve guides, what brass parts would an Accord engine have?

From the thickness, my guess is buggered threads from the pan. They’re too big to get sucked up by the pickup, so they stayed in the pan. Oil staining, or perhaps lighting, might have made aluminum look a bit brassy.

A time-sert thread insert would be my recommendation. Fix it right, once, and have a permanent pan repair. Maybe drop the pan to do it, and take good look inside while you’re there.

 

[Trav]

Wrist pin bushings are bronze, very old engines that used cast iron pistons eg Model T used brass, bronze and brass particles will appear similar. In the engine I dont remember exactly but I think it uses bronze bushings in the rocker arms which is common.
On the oil pan drain bolt you could use a TimeSert or if using something like a Valvomax (they are great stainless quality, veteran owned and give a full drain) an M14x1.5 heli coil will work just fine.
This is rocker arm with a bushing not your but an example. I would guess the sliver came from the outside lip if it is in fact bronze, you would have to tear into it just to look which anless it worsens is not worth it.

M14-1.50 Quick Twist Valve with Stainless Drain Tube Knob

Quick Twist Valve Drain oil in 10 minutes or less with the ValvoMax Quick Twist Valve. The Stainless Steel valve replaces your existing oil drain bolt. Enjoy premium quality that's built to last. No tools, no mess, FAST drain. Each order comes with a valve, steel cap with embedded rubber seal...

www.valvomax.com

 

[wemay]

You're right, it's odd. But I have my doubts about the slivers of what appears to be brass coming from the messed up drain plug. I'd be looking at the fuel dilution as a possible cause. WOT a lot especially if the engine hasn't reached full operating temperature isn't helping matters either.

I don't recall the '06 V6 being a diluter.

 

[demarpaint]

I don't recall the '06 V6 being a diluter.

I don't either, but the OP alluded to it in his post.

 

[wemay]

I don't either, but the OP alluded to it in his post.

Yeah, that's what makes this odd. Something amiss with that engine.

 

[demarpaint]

Yeah, that's what makes this odd. Something amiss with that engine.

Yes. @Trav is probably onto something.

 

[JohnnyG]

What are the timing chain guides made of?

 

[zfasts03]

timing belt on this engine

 

[TomYoung]

I don't think you can get any idea where these metal pieces came from without dismantling the engine - which would be questionable economically, since you can source a new block, or a complete engine for not that much. These cars are in the junkyard, and they fall apart around running engines. I would change your oil and keep driving.

 

[Gasbuggy]

I don't recall the '06 V6 being a diluter.

I went back an dug out the UOA and I am wrong, it was a NAPA analysis and it didn't check fuel. My 5w20 sample still had a viscosity of 8.0 after 6500 miles. M1 5w20 starts out at 8.7.


Here is the thread that came off, I very much doubt it's related to the slivers.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Wrist pin bushings are bronze, very old engines that used cast iron pistons eg Model T used brass, bronze and brass particles will appear similar. In the engine I dont remember exactly but I think it uses bronze bushings in the rocker arms which is common.
On the oil pan drain bolt you could use a TimeSert or if using something like a Valvomax (they are great stainless quality, veteran owned and give a full drain) an M14x1.5 heli coil will work just fine.
This is rocker arm with a bushing not your but an example. I would guess the sliver came from the outside lip if it is in fact bronze, you would have to tear into it just to look which anless it worsens is not worth it.

M14-1.50 Quick Twist Valve with Stainless Drain Tube Knob

Quick Twist Valve Drain oil in 10 minutes or less with the ValvoMax Quick Twist Valve. The Stainless Steel valve replaces your existing oil drain bolt. Enjoy premium quality that's built to last. No tools, no mess, FAST drain. Each order comes with a valve, steel cap with embedded rubber seal...

www.valvomax.com

View attachment 165639

Thank you for the info and suggestions, I will check out the Valvomax. The threads in the pan are still holding up so I expect whatever goes in there next will stay. If not I'll break out the panel bond lol.

 

[Dino01]

I’d still wager it’s threads from bolt/pan getting in there

The j series, especially without vcm, are some of the best engines ever made, I wouldn’t worry myself

 

[The Critic]

A time-sert thread insert would be my recommendation. Fix it right, once, and have a permanent pan repair. Maybe drop the pan to do it, and take good look inside while you’re there.

Time serts are not always the optimal repair for oil pans. If the threads for the insert are not tapped perfectly straight, there is a high likelihood of a leak.

Also, it is almost impossible to fully remove all of the shavings without removing the pan.

Lastly, once you account for the cost of the kit, it is cheaper to just buy a new pan.

 

[Astro14]

Time serts are not always the optimal repair for oil pans. If the threads for the insert are not tapped perfectly straight, there is a high likelihood of a leak.

Also, it is almost impossible to fully remove all of the shavings without removing the pan.

Lastly, once you account for the cost of the kit, it is cheaper to just buy a new pan.

Yes, and no. Depends on the car. Cheap stamped steel, sure, new pan. But…

List price on a Volvo pan is close to $700. It’s a complex aluminum casting and it ain’t cheap. Makes the Time-sert the best option.

Volvo Oil Pan - Genuine Volvo 30777698

Volvo Oil Pan - Genuine Volvo 30777698

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And I would drop the pan to install it.

With damaged threads, I would want it repaired or replaced.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I don't think you can get any idea where these metal pieces came from without dismantling the engine - which would be questionable economically, since you can source a new block, or a complete engine for not that much. These cars are in the junkyard, and they fall apart around running engines. I would change your oil and keep driving.

Ferrography would quickly tell you what metal it really is, and narrow down the possible culprits. It’s just not dirt cheap to do it.

 

[ctechbob]

That's what the procedure looks like for the Timesert kit.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Timesert looks very effective and also like something you might bugger up doing it on your back in the driveway, if it's your first time. He made a comment about how Honda doesn't use a steel insert and once in a while every thread comes out attached to the drain plug. I think that's the trouble I'm heading towards.

I will probably replace the drain plug with something like a Fumoto and cross my fingers.