Brakes

[AcuraTech]

Forget about all this break in [censored]. Buy quality pads, grease the slide pins and caliper ears, make sure the rotor surface is fresh (aka resurfaced or new), and quit worrying. A good quality pad that is mated to a fresh rotor should NEVER make noise or dust up enough to make your wheel black. People here are jumping through all these hoops to get the brakes "broken in" which shouldn't be necessary at all.

Here's a tip. BUY OEM. Why? They last the longest and make the least amount of noise. And why is that? Because manufacturers don't want to spend money on warranty brake jobs because the pads started squeaking at 3K miles. OEM pads last longer, make less noise, and dust less. Go ahead, buy those bull**** AutoZone $100 dollar ceramic pads, and see how much you like them. It's not my money, so give em' a try. Just don't complain when they start screaming like a banshee.

Break in is a garbage theory, unless you're running a race car. Buy some decent pads and ****! I've had enough with this discussion.

 

[alanu]

I know honda's formulation changed several years ago in their civics. The mileage went from 70,000kms to aprox 35,000kms with the new formula. I wonder if that was due to excellent longevity (lasting too long)

You can buy OEM volvo pads for many of thier cars and they will still squeel due to "nature of the product"

I still have almost NO issues with Raybestos PGD-C (professional grade)cheaper line of the ceramics not the "quiet stop" line.
I do alot of brake jobs on many many makes.

My shop I see absolutely no benefits in buying OEM pads since I only get 20% off list and I see absolutely no gains in stopping power, less dust or longevity. I know so many other shops using Raybestos PGD-C part numbers with phenominal success in quiet operation and low dust. Napa sells united brake products which is aka Raybestos.

Its all in the prep work. I sand refinished rotors with 120 grit and a fine finish setting on my brake lathe. Its all in the prep and washing the machined rotors with soap. New rotors will still have questionable runout these days.

I always use Rabyestos silicon grease on the back of the pads. Wurth sells 100% silicon grease for the same exact application. Excellent stuff.

 

[Merkava_4]

I had an interesting time installing the pads on the rear disc brakes of my Buick. The caliper piston is threaded in its bore. Lets just say that I had the opportunity to became an expert at GM rear disc brakes before I was done.

 

[alanu]

Merkava,

Self biasing rear disc brakes are very common. A cheap OTC caliper tool kit will compress that piston in a snap.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: alanu
Merkava,

Self biasing rear disc brakes are very common. A cheap OTC caliper tool kit will compress that piston in a snap.


Just to make sure we're on the same page here. He's talking about a self adjusting caliper ..which you kinda acknowledge in a casual manner ..but sorta also refer to what most of use would consider a scissor or other like mechanism (cheap) to compress the piston ..which most of us have to have (or a good C clamp) ..when the action isn't at all the same.

Do you mean "a cheap Un-threading tool"?

I know these have been around since the 80's, at least, on some of the old Subaru discs. I've never encountered them myself.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I have to call one on the Autozone Duralast Ceramics. First, they were about $30, a mid-range prooduct, but dirt cheap. I used them with the old, good, rotors. I was more concerned with the caliper function this time around. They should have been checked and serviced last brake job, but were siezed with blown seals. Anyway, a month or two later, they work great. I've used most good Euro brands, and can tell the difference...the plasticy Pagid Blues being my favourite, also likeing the Axxis Ultimates, which the AZ/DL Ceramics remind me of, sort of ahard clay feel which got softer now over time. Other then the one caliper and a rebuild kit for the other, my brake job costs $30 and works great on a pretty heavy and hard-driven CRV.

people like and resopect AcuraTech, I know I do, but he's spending too much time hanging-out with his service manager.

 

[doitmyself]

Alanu,

Thanks for feedback from someone "in the trenches".

It was rumored several months ago that Raybestos was re-organizing in some fashion that was going to "cheapen" their products. Some complained of poor quality control, poor fit, etc..

Since you use their product a lot, have you noticed any down turn regarding quality?

Also, Critic, recently chastised for being "by the book", will join me in saying it's good to see that some professionals pay attention to the details, such as washing the rotors in soap.

Thank you.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: alanu
Merkava,

Self biasing rear disc brakes are very common. A cheap OTC caliper tool kit will compress that piston in a snap.


Just to make sure we're on the same page here. He's talking about a self adjusting caliper ..which you kinda acknowledge in a casual manner ..but sorta also refer to what most of use would consider a scissor or other like mechanism (cheap) to compress the piston ..which most of us have to have (or a good C clamp) ..when the action isn't at all the same.

Do you mean "a cheap Un-threading tool"?

I know these have been around since the 80's, at least, on some of the old Subaru discs. I've never encountered them myself.


On some cars the caliper piston must be turned while being pushed back into the caliper. That's why a simple clamp won't suffice, but why an also simple piston retraction tool that turns the piston while pushing it in is needed. I can post a picture of the tool that I use, if you want. Wouldn't want to miss out on any snide remarks made in fake Ahhh-nold ack-cent.

 

[brianl703]

I use the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads from Autozone (when available). They work great, don't squeak, and don't cost anywhere near $100.

Incidentally, the few times I've had squealing (which weren't with those pads), I've corrected it by repeatedly applying the brakes until I can smell them (get 'em good and hot, then drive for a few minutes without stopping to cool them off) No more squeaking after that.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: alanu
Its all in the prep and washing the machined rotors with soap.


I don't machine rotors when I do brake jobs, but I do clean them with brake part cleaner before installation. They're covered with something that prevents them from corroding in the box and that something is best removed before the rotor is used.

 

[Mr Nice]

The AutoZone Gold pads work great on Hondas, so do the Bendix Import Quiet pads.

Zero noise and very little brake dust.

 

[Whimsey]

On my 1996 Contour I changed the factory front brake pads at around 60,000 miles. I still have the factory rotors and did not machine them when I changed the pads, no need to. I used OEM pads, not Motorcraft. The OEM pads were more expensive but I had such good service with them and in the end even though they costed more they saved me more in not having to replace or machine the rotors. I didn't do the labor myself so I had to pay to have it done.

After 10,000 miles they still stop great and no brake shuddering. The rotors still have no uneven wear. Plus brake dust is almost non existent.

Whimsey

 

[thrace]

I have found that Honda genuine pads on the Odyssey deteriorate and make a grinding noise and vibrate long before they wear out on two consecutive sets. At 15,000 or so miles both times. Yes, I did refinish the rotors and grease the caliper pins and where caliper slides. Don't know if Honda makes a better street pad. I do not race. Looking for something else.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: alanu
Its all in the prep and washing the machined rotors with soap.


I don't machine rotors when I do brake jobs, but I do clean them with brake part cleaner before installation. They're covered with something that prevents them from corroding in the box and that something is best removed before the rotor is used.


The ATE rotors that I buy come with a coating applied that is not supposed to be removed before installation, because it aids the bedding-in process. Never had an issue with those rotors...

 

[alanu]

I have absolutely nothing to gain by saying good things about anything on the BITOG.

Raybestos has moved a piece of thier manufacturing into CHINA. I've been told they have USA made and China made products. This is the info I am getting from my Raybestos rep but commonly even the reps dont get all the current info.

The ceramic pad from raybestos (lower ceramic line) is called xxxPGD-C. They seat quickly and have little dust emission. They are quiet pads without a question.

The brake shoes are "intersting" since they no longer use core backings they manufacture them from scratch in the USA. They are not perfect. A batch of corolla rear shoes were too thick on the brake material and the drums couldn't go on. On dodge 1500's (if I recall) had incorrect holes so the retaining springs were too loose so there was little spring tension.

Raybestos china rotors are very nice for the price. Thick unlike many other china rotors these days.

pad material from raybestos has improved dramatically compared to the older semi metalic material.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
On some cars the caliper piston must be turned while being pushed back into the caliper.


(Han Solo to C3PO)

I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

As I said, I was AWARE of them since AT LEAST the 80's some time ..but had not encountered them.

(never wanting to be considered one to disappoint)

akch yoo kan'nt get him to read k'hare-fooly.

Ya ..yoo post der pick-chur for me, huh? hi'ack wood sir-tanly doo it for yoo.

(said in a manner not unlike his infamous butchering of der Kingz Ing-lesh innah Conan der Barbarian ..where he said, "We bust dem up pretty goo'd, huh?" - par-heirfraz'd).

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: alanu
Merkava,

Self biasing rear disc brakes are very common. A cheap OTC caliper tool kit will compress that piston in a snap.


I borrowed a kit like this one from my neighbor for turning the piston in. I did discover however that I still had to fine tune the rotation of the piston with nose pliers for lining up the bow-tie slot on the piston with the stem on the back side of the pad. I got rather good at it by time I was done though.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
As I said, I was AWARE of them since AT LEAST the 80's some time ..but had not encountered them.


I don't know how anybody who has worked on any number of cars could not have encountered this type brake piston. You never worked on any European car, I reckon?

My brake piston tool is similar to the one Merkava posted. Mine has more adaptors, though. Cost was around $60.

 

[Gary Allan]

Nope. Led'me tinkh'eer (sorry-habit

). My Euro stuff was pre-80's ... Tempo -no, Caravan - no, Jeeps-no. Beaters during the time were even older. Heck, now that I think about it, due to some evolutionary byproducts, I don't think I've even had to do a set of drum brakes (rear) in 25+ years. They all lasted 100k+ in my usage.

While most people had a steady progression of economic advancement and progressively newer cars, my life had many "dark ages". The side effect was bypassing many an intermediate introduction.

One dark age thing that you'll find very hard to understand is that, due to my status, I had no idea that the ABA and merged with the NBA. It was the same when my stereo blew a fuse internally (Haffler 100W x 2 power amp - coupled to my Marantz ocilliscope'd tuner and pre-amp) and I stopped listening to music except via car radio. When I finally bought my Mitsubishi 400 watt home theater, I went to buy some new vinyl ..and discovered that CD's, that were just emerging tech when my amp "stopped working" ..had pushed vinyl to a very small section in the record store. I then noticed that my interactive remote had no option for "phono" ..just "aux".

Oddly, while enjoying my new stereo, and urge came upon me to dig into the Haffler power amp that had put me into this audio evolution hiatus. Upon taking it apart, right there on the floor in front of my new stereo, I found an internal 5amp fuse that was blown. It then dawned on me why the PO had made external fuse 3amp while 5amp as called for. I had gotten annoyed at it blowing and had put in a 5amp. The internal fuse blew first.

Funny what a full plate and an empty wallet can have in life altering oddities.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: thrace
I have found that Honda genuine pads on the Odyssey deteriorate and make a grinding noise and vibrate long before they wear out on two consecutive sets. At 15,000 or so miles both times. Yes, I did refinish the rotors and grease the caliper pins and where caliper slides. Don't know if Honda makes a better street pad. I do not race. Looking for something else.

Members on OdyClub have had great success with the Centric 106 series Extended Wear pads in the 3rd generation Odyssey to resolve the grinding problem. The new 105 series Ceramics from Centric should work even better than the 106 in terms of stopping power. You can get a set for about $50 shipped from Rotorwork.