BP's "giant oil discovery"
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
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It has no assurance ..in any way, that there will be enough to distribute.
So do you have a different system in mind that will provide that "assurance"?
No. You do, however, insist that "THE MARKET" will provide. So, my friend, it is you who alleged that it is assured that there will always be enough.
You are wrong. The market will provide to those who can afford to participate.
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It has no assurance ..in any way, that there will be enough to distribute.
So do you have a different system in mind that will provide that "assurance"?
No. You do, however, insist that "THE MARKET" will provide. So, my friend, it is you who alleged that it is assured that there will always be enough.
You are wrong. The market will provide to those who can afford to participate.
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The view isn't any better on the floor. LOL.
The view isn't any better on the floor. LOL.
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Like Tempest said, capitalism will work.
I just fell out of my seat...
I've fallen off mine a few times while reading these threads. The view isn't any better on the floor. LOL.
I think you guys have misinterpret my stance every single time.
I believe in capitalism, but I do not believe in a skewed form of "capitalism" that the "flat tax" or "military to secure oil supply" or "because I do not know anyone that cannot afford health insurance, there is no problem in the health care system" sort of bundling into capitalism.
Like Gary said, capitalism always work as long as you allow the fall out of the society to be eliminated. I feel them, rather than dehumanize them, and I know what limit I consider fair. Yes, capitalism always work, as long as you can tolerates the consequences or have a way to systematically eliminates the fall outs.
I'm not sure about you guys, I don't have a cold enough hard to eliminate the fall outs completely.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Like Tempest said, capitalism will work.
I just fell out of my seat...
I've fallen off mine a few times while reading these threads. The view isn't any better on the floor. LOL.
I think you guys have misinterpret my stance every single time.
I believe in capitalism, but I do not believe in a skewed form of "capitalism" that the "flat tax" or "military to secure oil supply" or "because I do not know anyone that cannot afford health insurance, there is no problem in the health care system" sort of bundling into capitalism.
Like Gary said, capitalism always work as long as you allow the fall out of the society to be eliminated. I feel them, rather than dehumanize them, and I know what limit I consider fair. Yes, capitalism always work, as long as you can tolerates the consequences or have a way to systematically eliminates the fall outs.
I'm not sure about you guys, I don't have a cold enough hard to eliminate the fall outs completely.
I agree Panda. I am a Capitalist in a capitalist system. It is imperfect and the market does not provide for all. It is more of a Darwinian system resulting in those ill prepared or with ill luck to fall inot the Dreqs.
We can either Act as nature and let the jackals pick them to the bone or we could become a more humane society that sacrifice some of our prize to assure that no one is left to fall into the dispair. I do not believe it is the fault of those that do not succeed. Attittudes are formed by circumstance and circumstance is not a choice.
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
We can either Act as nature and let the jackals pick them to the bone or we could become a more humane society that sacrifice some of our prize to assure that no one is left to fall into the dispair. I do not believe it is the fault of those that do not succeed. Attittudes are formed by circumstance and circumstance is not a choice.
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
Quote:
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
In no way. I think They are horrible and the consequence has been food producing lands are turning into fuel producing lands. The footprint of the energy development in ethanol is to large and cannot survive without subsidies.
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In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
In no way. I think They are horrible and the consequence has been food producing lands are turning into fuel producing lands. The footprint of the energy development in ethanol is to large and cannot survive without subsidies.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
Help me out here. How does the one mandate the other? I need your logic train on this (and a few other things).
The point is that THE MARKET has no mastery of anything. It merely distributes what is available. What will you do when the market runs out of gas and its alternative, if it even exists, is in such short supply that there is no way to sustain the residents of this planet?
For the moment, entertain the notion that THE MARKET cannot "solve" the problem of too many people and too little energy. There is that possibility. I rather consider it a given considering that one is on a massive upramp (population and development) and one is flat or in decline.
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In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
Help me out here. How does the one mandate the other? I need your logic train on this (and a few other things).
The point is that THE MARKET has no mastery of anything. It merely distributes what is available. What will you do when the market runs out of gas and its alternative, if it even exists, is in such short supply that there is no way to sustain the residents of this planet?
For the moment, entertain the notion that THE MARKET cannot "solve" the problem of too many people and too little energy. There is that possibility. I rather consider it a given considering that one is on a massive upramp (population and development) and one is flat or in decline.
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How does the one mandate the other?
Corn subsides are a non-market solution...which he said he supports...but then doesn't...
How does the one mandate the other?
Corn subsides are a non-market solution...which he said he supports...but then doesn't...
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One doesn't mandate the other.
It shows the flaws in his non-market solution. Markets can't afford to waste such resources as they don't have a captive revenue supply.
One doesn't mandate the other.
It shows the flaws in his non-market solution. Markets can't afford to waste such resources as they don't have a captive revenue supply.
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Please explain. Got a link?
Whoa, lets slow this down a little....
Capitalism lets market forces produce lower costs and higher volume, the best methods move to the top but.........
We do not fish out the last fish in the sea, then wonder why none are reproducing..... we control fishing to maximize our yields.
Countries depending on wood for energy have let runaway capitalism cut down the last tree resulting in abject poverty for all the citizens. Regulations requiring sustainable production could have greatly enhanced their lives.
Many more cases can be found, capitalism must not be short sighted immediate gratification.
An earlier poster stated that we had 200 years of oil in Alaska, and huge amounts in North Dakota.... Could you please tell us where you get that information????
Note that some sites hyping penny stocks for illicit gains have made these statements, even stating the USGS says so, except of course the USGS says its not so!
Marathon Oil has been drilling into the Bakken Field for over 50 years, recovery is difficult, yields and reserves are about 1 percent of the unsupported wild claims made......
Wait, I just saw Yeti running across my back yard, he really does exist!!
Capitalism lets market forces produce lower costs and higher volume, the best methods move to the top but.........
We do not fish out the last fish in the sea, then wonder why none are reproducing..... we control fishing to maximize our yields.
Countries depending on wood for energy have let runaway capitalism cut down the last tree resulting in abject poverty for all the citizens. Regulations requiring sustainable production could have greatly enhanced their lives.
Many more cases can be found, capitalism must not be short sighted immediate gratification.
An earlier poster stated that we had 200 years of oil in Alaska, and huge amounts in North Dakota.... Could you please tell us where you get that information????
Note that some sites hyping penny stocks for illicit gains have made these statements, even stating the USGS says so, except of course the USGS says its not so!
Marathon Oil has been drilling into the Bakken Field for over 50 years, recovery is difficult, yields and reserves are about 1 percent of the unsupported wild claims made......
Wait, I just saw Yeti running across my back yard, he really does exist!!
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
Corn ethanol is not efficient, productive, or environmental. The only reason we have this beast is due to farming lobbyist and it is not capitalist or liberal....
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
How does the one mandate the other?
Corn subsides are a non-market solution...which he said he supports...but then doesn't...
I don't think he support corn subsidizes resulted corn ethanol. If you say he support handing out welfare checks or handicap checks, maybe that'll pass, but corn subsidizes are going to political power influenced wealthy farmers rather than people who fell off the safety net.... Your argument doesn't make sense here.
Quote:
In terms of energy we can allow the market to always provide. The consequence will be mass dieout.
So I take it that you fully support corn ethanol subsidies?
Corn ethanol is not efficient, productive, or environmental. The only reason we have this beast is due to farming lobbyist and it is not capitalist or liberal....
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
How does the one mandate the other?
Corn subsides are a non-market solution...which he said he supports...but then doesn't...
I don't think he support corn subsidizes resulted corn ethanol. If you say he support handing out welfare checks or handicap checks, maybe that'll pass, but corn subsidizes are going to political power influenced wealthy farmers rather than people who fell off the safety net.... Your argument doesn't make sense here.
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Well said, Panda Bear. Lobbying by big ethanol producers, and other corporations for their own interest is just that, neither liberal or conservative.
Our job is to see to it that government controls warlords, dictators, thieves, and power/money hungry corporations, etc and serves the interests or our citizens.
A really free market is what Somalia has!! The biggest gun wins, everybody else loses. A free market operated with integrity benefits us all!
Our job is to see to it that government controls warlords, dictators, thieves, and power/money hungry corporations, etc and serves the interests or our citizens.
A really free market is what Somalia has!! The biggest gun wins, everybody else loses. A free market operated with integrity benefits us all!
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Countries depending on wood for energy have let runaway capitalism cut down the last tree resulting in abject poverty for all the citizens.
Did the people doing the cutting and profiting from it own the land the trees were on? How many kickbacks to "officials" were involved?
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A really free market is what Somalia has!! The biggest gun wins
That is called anarchy and tyranny, not capitalism. You don't even know what you are talking about here. There is NO right to private property in Somalia as it can be taken at any time by those in charge, for no reason. Capitalism cannot exist if there are no private property rights.
Countries depending on wood for energy have let runaway capitalism cut down the last tree resulting in abject poverty for all the citizens.
Did the people doing the cutting and profiting from it own the land the trees were on? How many kickbacks to "officials" were involved?
Quote:
A really free market is what Somalia has!! The biggest gun wins
That is called anarchy and tyranny, not capitalism. You don't even know what you are talking about here. There is NO right to private property in Somalia as it can be taken at any time by those in charge, for no reason. Capitalism cannot exist if there are no private property rights.
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I don't think he support corn subsidizes resulted corn ethanol.
He said that relying on the market will result in mass die offs. The non-market solution is corn ethanol, to which you said: "Corn ethanol is not efficient, productive, or environmental."
I don't think he support corn subsidizes resulted corn ethanol.
He said that relying on the market will result in mass die offs. The non-market solution is corn ethanol, to which you said: "Corn ethanol is not efficient, productive, or environmental."
Thank you tempest, for telling me what a fool I am. All along I thought private property rights were protected by a strong government that the people impose on themselves.
If those people in Somalia, Rwanda, Nigeria, and another 50 country's rich in natural resources but nonetheless extremely poor only knew all they had to do was put a sign on their driveways saying "private property here"!!
Back to the topic: We are not finding a lot of new oil!!
We must plan for the future with conservation, efficient alternatives, etc. Most of us on this website are interested in the science and technology that will make it happen.
If those people in Somalia, Rwanda, Nigeria, and another 50 country's rich in natural resources but nonetheless extremely poor only knew all they had to do was put a sign on their driveways saying "private property here"!!
Back to the topic: We are not finding a lot of new oil!!
We must plan for the future with conservation, efficient alternatives, etc. Most of us on this website are interested in the science and technology that will make it happen.
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