This thread has become an unfortunate victim.
BP's "giant oil discovery"
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http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/01/11/a-deep-discovery-in-the-shallow-gulf-of-mexico.aspx
Another well was been sunk to this same deep oil bearing rock by another company. This time instead of a 31,000 foot well underneath 4,000 feet of water, it's a 28,000 foot well closer to shore in only 20 feet of water.
Another well was been sunk to this same deep oil bearing rock by another company. This time instead of a 31,000 foot well underneath 4,000 feet of water, it's a 28,000 foot well closer to shore in only 20 feet of water.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/mcmoran...davy-jones.html
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
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The evolution is clear. It's requiring more and more expense to find less and less oil. This is the normal format for finite resources. Tracked over many. Copper, uranium, gold ..
Quote:
I firmly believe technology will triumph. But there needs to be a financial incentive to make it happen.
Sure, but it's got to be, within itself, a perpetually sustainable technology.
Can you name one technology that doesn't have a set of liabilities that match or trump its utility? Fossil fuels are free for the taking without one $1 put into "creating" the energy. We can see that actually producing the fuel from scratch has it's own set of side effects and liabilities ..the least of which is the sizable footprint required to allow it. There's not enough tillable land on the planet to fuel us and feed us.
..or do you believe in "magic"? I don't. Even if some brainiac can figure a way to tap subspace for energy, some thing or someone will come to collect the bill for services rendered.
There will be no "black box".
Again, one need not just create endless tons of plastic just to give people a purpose in buying them ..but that's a different subject.
Quote:
I firmly believe technology will triumph. But there needs to be a financial incentive to make it happen.
Sure, but it's got to be, within itself, a perpetually sustainable technology.
Can you name one technology that doesn't have a set of liabilities that match or trump its utility? Fossil fuels are free for the taking without one $1 put into "creating" the energy. We can see that actually producing the fuel from scratch has it's own set of side effects and liabilities ..the least of which is the sizable footprint required to allow it. There's not enough tillable land on the planet to fuel us and feed us.
..or do you believe in "magic"? I don't. Even if some brainiac can figure a way to tap subspace for energy, some thing or someone will come to collect the bill for services rendered.
There will be no "black box".
Again, one need not just create endless tons of plastic just to give people a purpose in buying them ..but that's a different subject.
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Yeah. The "trick", if you can call it that, is to integrate the "free" energy sources to produce/facilitate the required energy needed. It doesn't really matter what the efficiency of the process is as long as you end up on the plus side of the equation in the consumption
roduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle.
My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
roduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle. My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/mcmoran...davy-jones.html
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
Here's an interesting discussion on that discovery:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6135#more
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/mcmoran...davy-jones.html
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
Here's an interesting discussion on that discovery:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6135#more
Originally Posted By: dhise
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/mcmoran...davy-jones.html
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
Here's an interesting discussion on that discovery:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6135#more
"Bottom-hole pressures may be as high as 25,000 pounds per square inch, by far the highest pressures known in Gulf of Mexico wells, and almost 10 times the rocket engine chamber pressure required for spacecraft liftoff. While not specifically mentioned, reservoir temperature is probably considerably more than 400 degrees Fahrenheit."
Wow. No wonder Exxon-Mobil was leery about drilling down that deep.
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/mcmoran...davy-jones.html
Another story about this newest hole, with more info. This Davy Jones company took over a "dry" 19,000 exploratory well that had been abandoned by someone else, drilled down to 28,000 feet and hit pay dirt.
Here's an interesting discussion on that discovery:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6135#more
"Bottom-hole pressures may be as high as 25,000 pounds per square inch, by far the highest pressures known in Gulf of Mexico wells, and almost 10 times the rocket engine chamber pressure required for spacecraft liftoff. While not specifically mentioned, reservoir temperature is probably considerably more than 400 degrees Fahrenheit."
Wow. No wonder Exxon-Mobil was leery about drilling down that deep.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yeah. The "trick", if you can call it that, is to integrate the "free" energy sources to produce/facilitate the required energy needed. It doesn't really matter what the efficiency of the process is as long as you end up on the plus side of the equation in the consumptionroduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle.
My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
Power plants used to do this. Many cities have central steam distribution systems for heating of buidings, primarily commercial, where the steam is a "waste" product from local power generating stations. Regretably, these old small power stations are being forced out of use, and being replaced by massive installations located in remote areas where no use of the waste heat is possible.
Yeah. The "trick", if you can call it that, is to integrate the "free" energy sources to produce/facilitate the required energy needed. It doesn't really matter what the efficiency of the process is as long as you end up on the plus side of the equation in the consumption
roduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle. My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
Power plants used to do this. Many cities have central steam distribution systems for heating of buidings, primarily commercial, where the steam is a "waste" product from local power generating stations. Regretably, these old small power stations are being forced out of use, and being replaced by massive installations located in remote areas where no use of the waste heat is possible.
Progress?
Originally Posted By: MI_Roger
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yeah. The "trick", if you can call it that, is to integrate the "free" energy sources to produce/facilitate the required energy needed. It doesn't really matter what the efficiency of the process is as long as you end up on the plus side of the equation in the consumptionroduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle.
My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
Power plants used to do this. Many cities have central steam distribution systems for heating of buidings, primarily commercial, where the steam is a "waste" product from local power generating stations. Regretably, these old small power stations are being forced out of use, and being replaced by massive installations located in remote areas where no use of the waste heat is possible.
Our municipal coal-fired power plant sells their waste steam to the big ethanol plant located just beside them. It's a convenient arrangement made possible only by their close proximity.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yeah. The "trick", if you can call it that, is to integrate the "free" energy sources to produce/facilitate the required energy needed. It doesn't really matter what the efficiency of the process is as long as you end up on the plus side of the equation in the consumption
roduction balance sheet. Well, that and the mass product output. Fossil fuels are deficit spending if viewed from that angle. My local nuke plant should be heating our streets and houses during the winter instead of blowing trillions of btu's into the air while I'm buying heating oil or NG to heat my house. Steam intensive industries should be using this waste heat FREE for the cooling service that they provide to the plant.
Power plants used to do this. Many cities have central steam distribution systems for heating of buidings, primarily commercial, where the steam is a "waste" product from local power generating stations. Regretably, these old small power stations are being forced out of use, and being replaced by massive installations located in remote areas where no use of the waste heat is possible.
Our municipal coal-fired power plant sells their waste steam to the big ethanol plant located just beside them. It's a convenient arrangement made possible only by their close proximity.
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That's the trick. Shannow was telling us of a desalination project that was configured with it's own heat source. I think that there were two projects. One was a proposed new coal fired plant ..and a new desal plant in the same region. The integration was never a consideration.
Decades ago there was more "street heat" in smaller municipalities. It was often a byproduct of industry. There are steam production plants that have been adapted to co-gen.
Decades ago there was more "street heat" in smaller municipalities. It was often a byproduct of industry. There are steam production plants that have been adapted to co-gen.
We aren't running out of oil. We are swimming in it here in the states. Lies, Lies, and more lies along with a huge dose of propoganda. There is enough oil in Alaska alone to last us another 200 years and that doesn't count the huge amount of oil found in North Dakota and Montana lately or what they already know about under the gulf. this "news' story is just more nonsense. They already know what is under that gulf.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We aren't running out of oil. We are swimming in it here in the states. Lies, Lies, and more lies along with a huge dose of propoganda. There is enough oil in Alaska alone to last us another 200 years and that doesn't count the huge amount of oil found in North Dakota and Montana lately or what they already know about under the gulf. this "news' story is just more nonsense. They already know what is under that gulf.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
I think this may or may not be a political debate about this, but it is more of whether it is cost effective to extract all the oil source, the coal to gasoline, oil shale, etc rather than whether it is available or not. Many of these are worthwhile at $120 / barrel, but not at $60/ barrel.
We aren't running out of oil. We are swimming in it here in the states. Lies, Lies, and more lies along with a huge dose of propoganda. There is enough oil in Alaska alone to last us another 200 years and that doesn't count the huge amount of oil found in North Dakota and Montana lately or what they already know about under the gulf. this "news' story is just more nonsense. They already know what is under that gulf.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
I think this may or may not be a political debate about this, but it is more of whether it is cost effective to extract all the oil source, the coal to gasoline, oil shale, etc rather than whether it is available or not. Many of these are worthwhile at $120 / barrel, but not at $60/ barrel.
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Quote:
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
Look at it from a greed standpoint ..if you believe it to be true.
Let all the other fools deplete the non-domestic supplies ..and then sit pretty while they suffer horribly. You can imagine a future of ultimate comfort ..big car ..big house ..while billions of grasshoppers didn't do their homework and meter out the available supply sensibly and just grabbed all that they could burn up ...just as fast as they could get their hands on it.
Meanwhile, the USA with OCEANS of the stuff are now, as always, holding all the marbles ..and no one else can play.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
Look at it from a greed standpoint ..if you believe it to be true.
Let all the other fools deplete the non-domestic supplies ..and then sit pretty while they suffer horribly. You can imagine a future of ultimate comfort ..big car ..big house ..while billions of grasshoppers didn't do their homework and meter out the available supply sensibly and just grabbed all that they could burn up ...just as fast as they could get their hands on it.
Meanwhile, the USA with OCEANS of the stuff are now, as always, holding all the marbles ..and no one else can play.
I had a fairly astute British turbine engineer working with me a few years ago and he reckons that coal is part of Britain's strategic "fortifications" (if you will).
He argued that they were exploring all sorts of extraction techniques for mining undersea (from land), while taking all of our overly cheap foreign stuff.
Should they be blockaded/attacked, they can switch to local supply.
Power stations in my state starved out coal mine strikes in the 80s by slowly increasing coal stockpiles to 1 year's generation (think 6-7M tonnes per station), so that the miners would be more likely to go back to work rather than ever achieve a state blackout.
Personally, if I was the USA, I'd make certain that there was enough "stuff" left underground to see through the worst.
He argued that they were exploring all sorts of extraction techniques for mining undersea (from land), while taking all of our overly cheap foreign stuff.
Should they be blockaded/attacked, they can switch to local supply.
Power stations in my state starved out coal mine strikes in the 80s by slowly increasing coal stockpiles to 1 year's generation (think 6-7M tonnes per station), so that the miners would be more likely to go back to work rather than ever achieve a state blackout.
Personally, if I was the USA, I'd make certain that there was enough "stuff" left underground to see through the worst.
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Quote:
Personally, if I was the USA, I'd make certain that there was enough "stuff" left underground to see through the worst.
Exactly. When I see someone whine about the end of cheap gas ..just for the option to blow more of it out a tail pipe ..(sigh). They're only unknowingly wishing in the post carbon age without figuring out how to cope without the stuff first.
It's worth so much more than any electronic floating funny money in the bank.
Personally, if I was the USA, I'd make certain that there was enough "stuff" left underground to see through the worst.
Exactly. When I see someone whine about the end of cheap gas ..just for the option to blow more of it out a tail pipe ..(sigh). They're only unknowingly wishing in the post carbon age without figuring out how to cope without the stuff first.
It's worth so much more than any electronic floating funny money in the bank.
We could have fairly cheap gas for many decades to come but since saying too much more will inevitably lead to a political discussion I won't go into any details as to who or why we have the problems we have. The oil companies have very little to do with the price or availability of oil.
However, if all the "roadblocks" that prevent exploration, refining etc. of our own natural resources were done away with we could be self sustaining for decades to come.
In addition to those problems importing 10's of millions of people every year from around the world and diluting our soveriegnty is another BIG problem. They estimate 500 million in the united States by 2050.
They haven't built any new powerplants or refineries (that I know of) in 40 years and have artificially populated this country with an additional 100 million people during that time. Many of which are here illegaly.
The big picture is right in front of everyone. All anyone has to do is look at it and accept the reality of it. The United States is intentionally being done away with.
However, if all the "roadblocks" that prevent exploration, refining etc. of our own natural resources were done away with we could be self sustaining for decades to come.
In addition to those problems importing 10's of millions of people every year from around the world and diluting our soveriegnty is another BIG problem. They estimate 500 million in the united States by 2050.
They haven't built any new powerplants or refineries (that I know of) in 40 years and have artificially populated this country with an additional 100 million people during that time. Many of which are here illegaly.
The big picture is right in front of everyone. All anyone has to do is look at it and accept the reality of it. The United States is intentionally being done away with.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
Look at it from a greed standpoint ..if you believe it to be true.
Let all the other fools deplete the non-domestic supplies ..and then sit pretty while they suffer horribly. You can imagine a future of ultimate comfort ..big car ..big house ..while billions of grasshoppers didn't do their homework and meter out the available supply sensibly and just grabbed all that they could burn up ...just as fast as they could get their hands on it.
Meanwhile, the USA with OCEANS of the stuff are now, as always, holding all the marbles ..and no one else can play.
I've heard that take on the situation for years and it may be true but I don't trust any of our elected officials to do anything that is in our best interest. They have proven that they can't be trusted for at least 40 years now. This energy problem has been devastating to the economy and has all but bankrupted the tranportaion industry. Not that it is the ONLY thing that has devastated the economy but it has had a huge effect. They can't even build roads without oil.
Quote:
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
Look at it from a greed standpoint ..if you believe it to be true.
Let all the other fools deplete the non-domestic supplies ..and then sit pretty while they suffer horribly. You can imagine a future of ultimate comfort ..big car ..big house ..while billions of grasshoppers didn't do their homework and meter out the available supply sensibly and just grabbed all that they could burn up ...just as fast as they could get their hands on it.
Meanwhile, the USA with OCEANS of the stuff are now, as always, holding all the marbles ..and no one else can play.
I've heard that take on the situation for years and it may be true but I don't trust any of our elected officials to do anything that is in our best interest. They have proven that they can't be trusted for at least 40 years now. This energy problem has been devastating to the economy and has all but bankrupted the tranportaion industry. Not that it is the ONLY thing that has devastated the economy but it has had a huge effect. They can't even build roads without oil.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We aren't running out of oil. We are swimming in it here in the states. Lies, Lies, and more lies along with a huge dose of propoganda. There is enough oil in Alaska alone to last us another 200 years and that doesn't count the huge amount of oil found in North Dakota and Montana lately or what they already know about under the gulf. this "news' story is just more nonsense. They already know what is under that gulf.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
I think this may or may not be a political debate about this, but it is more of whether it is cost effective to extract all the oil source, the coal to gasoline, oil shale, etc rather than whether it is available or not. Many of these are worthwhile at $120 / barrel, but not at $60/ barrel.
It's not a political debate. It's an economic debate. Politicians just allow it to happen and make us pay for it.
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
We aren't running out of oil. We are swimming in it here in the states. Lies, Lies, and more lies along with a huge dose of propoganda. There is enough oil in Alaska alone to last us another 200 years and that doesn't count the huge amount of oil found in North Dakota and Montana lately or what they already know about under the gulf. this "news' story is just more nonsense. They already know what is under that gulf.
They have been screaming about oil shortages for decades and we have never run out. Just exactly how many dinasaurs were there, anyway? Oil pools run out and then refill all the time. There is so much of it under the Gulf of Mexico it leaks throught the seafloor and bubbles up to the top preventing people from even going surfing or swimming there at times.
They can make gasoline out of coal and then there is the oil shale on top of that. There has never been an oil shortage and there never will be (in our lifetimes) if we are allowed to use OUR OWN supplies and stop importing the rest of the world here to live. We don't need to drive go-karts, decrease consumption or anything else. We need to reduce imigration and be allowed to use our OWN RESOURCES.
It's a shame people believe everything they are told and can't see the big picture.
I think this may or may not be a political debate about this, but it is more of whether it is cost effective to extract all the oil source, the coal to gasoline, oil shale, etc rather than whether it is available or not. Many of these are worthwhile at $120 / barrel, but not at $60/ barrel.
It's not a political debate. It's an economic debate. Politicians just allow it to happen and make us pay for it.
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