Boutique/Expensive Oils over standard brands?

[BrocLuno]

In the case of Red Line and Motul 300V, it's about the ability of the oil to maintain some good film strength with massive fuel dilution. Thing blown nitro motors, or blown alcohol motors. Fuel being pushed past the ring band ...

It's also about staying alive in extreme heat. Motul 300V is a good oil for desert racers who may loose part of their cooling system between pit stops. The motor may survive... Or air-cooled motorcycle engines, VW and Porsche buggies, etc.

For a daily driver on the street with with semi-normal engine, prolly not needed

 

[jeepman3071]

I don't feel the boutique oils offer any real benefit.

The only boutique oil I use is Redline in the differentials. This is because I can get it on Amazon/ebay cheaper than the Mobil 1 differential oil at Advance. The Walmart near me only stocks SuperTech, and Autozone seems to only have Valvoline conventional and Royal Purple, which is even more expensive than the Redline or Mobil 1 at Advance.

I prefer to use synthetic in the differentials so I can put it in and forget about it for a while.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

OP_

I agree with Bruno,, engine sound relatively mild.

But, you sound like you want a "near" race oil for mind comfort.

-LL0-1/ MB229.5x is not a race oil and is somwhat EP and AW hampered for long sump life , though they are prob the best lube you can get in a 5qt jug for under 30 bucks.

- ILSAC oils are HIGHLY compromised for FE.

You could Try a motorbike oil (4T/API SH) if you don't want to buy a Motul or Brad Penn or AMSoil hot rod or Lucas full synthetic at 12 bucks a qt. Just BC it has a motorcycle picture on the bottle doesn't mean You cant put it in a li'l Honda motor

 

[fdcg27]

Boutique oils can offer some real advantages over those found on the shelf at Walmart, but those are advantages you may not need for your engine as you use it.
You can only judge these oils by what you can learn of their formulations as well as anecdote.
Red Line has long been very forthcoming with advice and recommendations.
In a performance application, ILSAC oils are probably best avoided in that non-starburst oils will typically be less volatile and will have higher HTHS viscosity.
OTOH, robertcope refers to your engine as a tractor motor with its 6.5K redline only because he owns two Hondas with much higher power peaks and redlines, and for those engines Honda recommends nothing more than quite ordinary oils.
JMHO

 

[SilverFusion2010]

If you are dead against an A3B3 certified 10w30 I would recommend an HDEO. Rotella 5w-40 or similar.

I really think the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 will work for you as it's basically a shear stable 10w-40 with a monster add pack.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010


I really think the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 will work for you as it's basically a shear stable 10w-40 with a monster add pack.


+1.

Considering lower than a 10w in that climate is really handicapping yourself. This is a great oil at a fair price, and a steal with their rebates. I use it in three vehicles and will switch a fourth to it this fall.

Maybe I didn't follow, but I didn't see where he was against A3/B3?

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010


I really think the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 will work for you as it's basically a shear stable 10w-40 with a monster add pack.


+1.

Considering lower than a 10w in that climate is really handicapping yourself. This is a great oil at a fair price, and a steal with their rebates. I use it in three vehicles and will switch a fourth to it this fall.

Maybe I didn't follow, but I didn't see where he was against A3/B3?




My way of pointing out that the M1 meets a tough certification.

 

[Oro_O]

Gotcha. Because being against A3/B3 is kinda like being against oil...

 

[gryffinwings]

I'm ok with a A3/B3 oil, but I'm not sure I want to use a 10W30 oil, I don't even want to use a high mileage oil.



Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 meets:
API SN (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30**, SAE 5W-40, L SAE 5w30, LX SAE 0W-30, AV SAE 5w30, SAE 10W-60)
CF (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
ACEA A3/B3-12 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE, 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
ACEA A3/B4-12 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE, 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
BMW LL-01
Chrysler MS-10725 (SAE 5W-40)
Chrysler MS-10850 (SAE 5W-40)
Chrysler MS-12991 (SAE 5W-40)
Ferrari (SAE 5W-40)
Maserati (SAE 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
Fiat 9.55535.Z2 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Fiat 9.55535.M2 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Mercedes-Benz 229.3 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Mercedes-Benz 229.5 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Mercedes-Benz 226.5 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Porsche A40 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40)
PSA B71 2296 (SAE 5W-40)
VW 502 00 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
VW 505 00 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40, AV SAE 5w30)
Renault RN0700 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)
Renault RN0710 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5w30, SAE 5W-40)



Mobil 1 FS 0w40
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 synthetic motor oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SN, SM, SL, SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
VW 502 00/505 00
PORSCHE A40
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is of the following quality:
API CF
VW 503 01



Rotella T6 HDEO meets these:
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9; JASO DH-2; Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31



Now it seems to me that Pennzoil Platinum Euro meets far more certifications that Mobil 1 0w40 and Rotella T6 HDEO. My next step will be to research each spec to see what each do.

 

[gryffinwings]

It seems that any oil meeting specs for A3/B3 and Porsche A40 would be actually really good for durability and cleanliness. Couldn't find much on a lot of other specs on here.

 

[BironDanmum]

My take on it is this: are you going to be operating that engine the way Honda designed it? Or are you going to be pushing it to its limits?

If you're going to be driving it the way Honda designed it, then use an oil that is designed for everyday stop and go driving that 95% of the drivers in this country perform. Any off-the-shelf Mobil/Castrol/Valvoline/Pennzoil/Quaker State/Super Tech/Havoline oil will be well-suited to the task.

But if you plan to push this thing past its limits, go with an oil that is designed for extremity. Whereas Redline and Royal Purple are likely overkill for the daily driver, if you're starting to increase compression or add forced induction then you're better off with something that was formulated for the worst-case scenario.

Royal Purple's SN-rated oils (what you'd find at Walmart for $37 bucks a gallon) bridge the gap between "daily driver" and "weekend racer" quite well. But that's not to say that any comparable Mobil or Castrol synthetic wouldn't equally be up to task either, but Royal Purple (or Redline) had a driver like you in mind when they created their oils rather than the grandma who drives to church and back once a week and takes the Corolla out for grocery runs.

So if it were me, I would lean more toward the boutique oils without going extravagant. You're not going to need an Amsoil Z-Rod or a Redline Race Oil.

As far as grade, I would stick with 10w40. No need for a 0w40 unless you live in Alaska. Some of the guys I race with have come down with the "thinner is better" bug and have successfully made the switch from 10w40 over to Liqui Moly 5w40 or Schaeffer's 5w40.

 

[jongies3]

Back in the day, yes, there was something special about them because they were blended to a much higher quality than what was available off the shelf at the time. Today? Not so much, they're like a comfort oil for people that think they're doing something special for their engine. We all have our preferences, but truth be told, any car will last a long [censored] time running either boutique or SuperTech syn when changed at normal service intervals.
My biggest problem with the boutiques is old marketing practices, pyramid sales schemes and praying on the gullible/misinformed, quite similar to door-to-door Kirby vacuum salesman. I don't believe any of them are special enough to justify having to go through a dealer or order directly from the company itself. It's 2017, not 1950. Something tells me the boutiques sales would be a whole lot better if they were made more widely available at chain brick and mortars throughout the country. But, as it stands, Amsoil, Redline, etc. are not even a threat in competition to Exxon, Shell, ConocoPhillips or British Petroleum products.

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted By: jongies3
Back in the day, yes, there was something special about them because they were blended to a much higher quality than what was available off the shelf at the time. Today? Not so much, they're like a comfort oil for people that think they're doing something special for their engine. We all have our preferences, but truth be told, any car will last a long [censored] time running either boutique or SuperTech syn when changed at normal service intervals.
My biggest problem with the boutiques is old marketing practices, pyramid sales schemes and praying on the gullible/misinformed, quite similar to door-to-door Kirby vacuum salesman. I don't believe any of them are special enough to justify having to go through a dealer or order directly from the company itself. It's 2017, not 1950. Something tells me the boutiques sales would be a whole lot better if they were made more widely available at chain brick and mortars throughout the country. But, as it stands, Amsoil, Redline, etc. are not even a threat in competition to Exxon, Shell, ConocoPhillips or British Petroleum products.

I'm not sure how accurate this is. While it's hard to get up-to-date numbers due to Royal Purple being a private company, when they were purchased in 2012 their 2011 financials were released and showed a revenue of 109 million. In 2015, Amsoil reported revenues in excess of 115 million. While Royal Purple definitely could've improved over the last 6 years, I question how much further they could've pulled ahead of Amsoil and called into question Amsoil's marketing structure. Is it for everyone? No, obviously. However, I doubt Amsoil is purposely passing up millions of dollars that could potentially be made with their products on the shelf of you local Napa, Advance or AutoZone. I mean, it really hasn't gotten Royal Purple much further than where Amsoil has gotten doing what they do. My guess is that they know that at their price point, they will never compete with the giant corporations such as Exxon, Shell, CP or BP and so they elect to stick with the more personal style of sales that they have now. Just my opinion though, I can't say that for certain.

 

[gryffinwings]

So, what I'm not sure on is I'm getting recommendations for 10wXX oil weights when a lot of the modern oils are at 5wXX or 0wXX, even OEMs spec 0wXX or 5wXX, I don't see 10wXX so much any more. So why recommend 10wXX?

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
So, what I'm not sure on is I'm getting recommendations for 10wXX oil weights when a lot of the modern oils are at 5wXX or 0wXX, even OEMs spec 0wXX or 5wXX, I don't see 10wXX so much any more. So why recommend 10wXX?


A lower spread between the two numbers generally means less VII, offering a finished oil that has more actual oil in it. Viscosity improvers don't lubricate. As a result of less VII you also get a more shear stable oil with a lower NOACK.

The Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 I keep recommending is almost a straight 30wt that passes the 10w pumpability rating. It also has an HTHS of 3.5 and a strong add pack. It is a VERY stout oil.

The 10w-40 is good as well, but I like less VII in my oil and that 10w30 is .1 HTHS from being a 40

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010


A lower spread between the two numbers generally means less VII, offering a finished oil that has more actual oil in it. Viscosity improvers don't lubricate.


This is worth reading twice.

Unless you are actually starting your car below perhaps 15F, your car CAN NOT see the difference between 5w and 10w. In those two grades most will perform functionally equal down to that temp, then differentiate as temps drop further. As a trade-off for the this very cold performance in the 5w, you give up a fair amount of lubrication performance at engine operating temperature.

10w-30 is not hard to find where I live (Seattle) - it's widely available and sells well. I think you might be surprised if you look for it, especially in SoCal. WalMart has it alongside the 5w jugs in every store I've ever seen. And the Mobil 1 High Mileage variant is a great oil for any mileage car that can use it.

Because OEM spec might be 5w30, that doesn't mean it's the best grade for the engine. The "spec" is a one-size fits all recommendation to placate the government demanding fleet emissions and mileage requirements, and a catch-all to keep consumers from generating warranty claims by doing something stupid, among other issues.

You have said you are going to run a built I-4 hard in a warm climate. Running a stouter oil best suited to that climte and use profile is the smartest choice. That is not the ONLY oil that can do well for you, but it starts to show you what extra possibilty is out there when you start looking hard at what the numbers mean and what's behind their use.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010


A lower spread between the two numbers generally means less VII, offering a finished oil that has more actual oil in it. Viscosity improvers don't lubricate.


This is worth reading twice.

Unless you are actually starting your car below perhaps 15F, your car CAN NOT see the difference between 5w and 10w. In those two grades most will perform functionally equal down to that temp, then differentiate as temps drop further. As a trade-off for the this very cold performance in the 5w, you give up a fair amount of lubrication performance at engine operating temperature.

10w-30 is not hard to find where I live (Seattle) - it's widely available and sells well. I think you might be surprised if you look for it, especially in SoCal. WalMart has it alongside the 5w jugs in every store I've ever seen. And the Mobil 1 High Mileage variant is a great oil for any mileage car that can use it.

Because OEM spec might be 5w30, that doesn't mean it's the best grade for the engine. The "spec" is a one-size fits all recommendation to placate the government demanding fleet emissions and mileage requirements, and a catch-all to keep consumers from generating warranty claims by doing something stupid, among other issues.

You have said you are going to run a built I-4 hard in a warm climate. Running a stouter oil best suited to that climte and use profile is the smartest choice. That is not the ONLY oil that can do well for you, but it starts to show you what extra possibilty is out there when you start looking hard at what the numbers mean and what's behind their use.




I think I will consider a 10w30 for a rebuilt D16A1. I'll likely stick with Pennzoil though, I like the idea of more pure oil base refined from natural gas.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
Originally Posted By: robertcope
6500? It's a tractor motor

You'll likely be just fine with something lik Mobil 1 0W-40. That's what I've run in almost everything, including my S2000. I've moved to Red Line 0w30 in my NSX and will likely do the same in the S2000, but not for any logical reason.


LOL, yeah, this is a old style Honda engine with no V-Tec like when the B16A engine came out, so there isn't much point in revving out to the stratosphere. Stock oil weight for the D16A1 is 10W40, honestly, I think that's a bit thick for startup, but then this engine was developed in the 80s, so I'm not sure if a 0W40 is ok for this engine.


In my racecar B18C that saw 9000 RPM on every shift, it used Mobil 1 5W30 without issue.

Although, if I still had that car, would probably be using Castrol 0W40 in it. It is like Frank's Red Hot, I put that sh$@ in everything.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010


A lower spread between the two numbers generally means less VII, offering a finished oil that has more actual oil in it. Viscosity improvers don't lubricate.


This is worth reading twice.

Unless you are actually starting your car below perhaps 15F, your car CAN NOT see the difference between 5w and 10w. In those two grades most will perform functionally equal down to that temp, then differentiate as temps drop further. As a trade-off for the this very cold performance in the 5w, you give up a fair amount of lubrication performance at engine operating temperature.

10w-30 is not hard to find where I live (Seattle) - it's widely available and sells well. I think you might be surprised if you look for it, especially in SoCal. WalMart has it alongside the 5w jugs in every store I've ever seen. And the Mobil 1 High Mileage variant is a great oil for any mileage car that can use it.

Because OEM spec might be 5w30, that doesn't mean it's the best grade for the engine. The "spec" is a one-size fits all recommendation to placate the government demanding fleet emissions and mileage requirements, and a catch-all to keep consumers from generating warranty claims by doing something stupid, among other issues.

You have said you are going to run a built I-4 hard in a warm climate. Running a stouter oil best suited to that climte and use profile is the smartest choice. That is not the ONLY oil that can do well for you, but it starts to show you what extra possibilty is out there when you start looking hard at what the numbers mean and what's behind their use.




I think I will consider a 10w30 for a rebuilt D16A1. I'll likely stick with Pennzoil though, I like the idea of more pure oil base refined from natural gas.


From what I understand, the Redline 5w30 is also a 30 wt oil that pumps like a 5W when cold. Very little VII and little to no shearing. Just something to think about.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Like everything else in this life, one must learn to see past the marketing, packaging, bright colours and fluff like it's not even there. 'Boutique' in itself is not directly representative of the products inherent value; I wouldn't put Redline and Lucas oil** on the same level at all.

**Lucas oil used in this example to avoid offending fans of maybe more popular 'boutique' oils with slick packaging and PR campaigns