Boutique/Expensive Oils over standard brands?

[gryffinwings]

Is there any additional benefits to using oils made by Amsoil/Motul/Red Line?

I can't imagine those companies being able to produce oils better than Pennzoil/Shell, Mobil 1, Castrol, or Valvoline. Amplifying infomation is greatly appreciated, don't just say it's awesome.

I plan on build an old Honda D16A1 (similar to a ZC) with slightly higher compression and cams to replace the D15A3 in my 87 CRX Si.

Due to the nature of the engine, I'll like be red lining quite often.

This is a picture of what I plan on building:

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Depends on application. For most people I would say give the boutique oils a pass.

 

[gryffinwings]

So definitely plan on improving performance of the engine, I want to try and increase compression to as close to 10:1 as possible and a cam. Red line will remain stock at 6500 RPMs.

 

[robertcope]

6500? It's a tractor motor

You'll likely be just fine with something lik Mobil 1 0W-40. That's what I've run in almost everything, including my S2000. I've moved to Red Line 0w30 in my NSX and will likely do the same in the S2000, but not for any logical reason.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

I'd pick a Full Synthetic 10w30.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Today there are so many good choices that as long as the oil meets the needed spec's there are no bad choices.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
6500? It's a tractor motor

You'll likely be just fine with something lik Mobil 1 0W-40. That's what I've run in almost everything, including my S2000. I've moved to Red Line 0w30 in my NSX and will likely do the same in the S2000, but not for any logical reason.


LOL, yeah, this is a old style Honda engine with no V-Tec like when the B16A engine came out, so there isn't much point in revving out to the stratosphere. Stock oil weight for the D16A1 is 10W40, honestly, I think that's a bit thick for startup, but then this engine was developed in the 80s, so I'm not sure if a 0W40 is ok for this engine.

 

[Alex_V]

Food for thought: The big companies make oil *good enough* and sell it in mass, while the little companies make oil better than is needed for average engines in average conditions but is warranted when they're pushing the envelope. When Valvoline conventional is more than adequate for 80% of vehicles, especially those that are owned by people who are going to walk in and buy a 5 qt. jug of it at Wal-Mart, the expense of the materials and engineering to make it the best money can buy isn't necessary. But Valvoline conventional won't do too well in your tuned Civic or 11:1 compression SBC.

 

[userfriendly]

Maybe we should call them craft oils, like craft beer.
Make a list of the base oil sources, and another list of the engine oil additive companies.
Throw out 0W & 5W unless you need those 2 winter grades. You know... for winter, as the name implies.
Now make a list of your engine oil requirements and products offered from the 2 lists.
If you are paying more than $6.00 a liter or US quart, I think you are paying too much.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

You could run Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30. HTHS of 3.5. 40 starts at 3.6

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You could run Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30. HTHS of 3.5. 40 starts at 3.6


No point in running a high mileage oil as this engine is going to be rebuilt and modified.

 

[RooflessVW]

I think Mobil 1 0W-40 would be a good choice.

 

[barkingspider]

I see no benefit using boutique oils vs the regular brands. I do see a benefit in not using boutique oil....cost. I would run 10w30 or 40 syn or blend oil.

 

[gryffinwings]

So if I want to use Pennzoil, which is what I normally use, I'd need to use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, which is the closest weight, the heighest weights for regular platinum is 10w30 and 5w30. I guess this would be a pretty good oil as it's specced for Ferrari.

 

[Nick1994]

Nope, I think they're just gimmicks.

Plenty of cars used and abused running quick-lube conventionals that aren't changed too often with 200k+ miles.

Now just imagine how happy those cars would be with some Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil 1.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You could run Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30. HTHS of 3.5. 40 starts at 3.6


No point in running a high mileage oil as this engine is going to be rebuilt and modified.


It was suggested because many High Mileage oils have a VERY stout additive package.

 

[GR_CoB]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You could run Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30. HTHS of 3.5. 40 starts at 3.6


No point in running a high mileage oil as this engine is going to be rebuilt and modified.


It was suggested because many High Mileage oils have a VERY stout additive package.

High Mileage oil has better additive package than regular oil. That puts it on the same level of performance as some boutique oils, but for a fraction of the cost. I vote for Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w40. I used it (2003&2006 Pontiac Vibes) in wintertime with no problems down to 5°F. It never got colder in NC at that time, so I cant speak for colder temperatures. Castrol Edge 10w40 made my engine struggle to start and get going in similar temps. Same story with Valvoline Maxlife 10w40 Synthetic Blend. So go for Mobil 1 10w40 and enjoy the experience.

 

[Hounds]

gryffinwings, that particular B-series engine survived a lot of lunacy in the days when Honda was recommending 5w30 weight conventional oil, but in light of what you're planning, I concur with rooflessVW: either Mobil 1's or Castrol's 0W-40 would be my choice. (FWIW, I believe the latter is VW's factory fill for all of its 2-liter EA888 turbocharged engines, including the 310-hp motor in the Golf R. Pretty good stuff.)

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I think Mobil 1 0W-40 would be a good choice.

 

[d00df00d]

So, here's the thing.

It's likely that the big brands generally don't make things as good as they could. It's also plausible that the boutique brands take a less compromised approach in many cases.

The problem is that we the consumers have no way to verify the boutique brands' claims. There are tons of anecdotes, but no independent systematic measures. You mainly just have to believe the advertising and testimonials, or not.

At least the big brands carry third-party approvals that can be compared without having to rely on marketing claims alone. For example, when I look at Mobil 1 5w30, I can tell it places a fair amount of emphasis on fuel economy (ILSAC GF-5) and has really nice high temp deposit control (Honda HTO-06); when I look at Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w30, I can tell it's thicker in hot bearings (ACEA A3) and made with long OCIs in mind (BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, etc.).

Every once in a while, there's an avalanche of decent data and feedback suggesting that a boutique oil can address a specific problem with a specific application. One prime example was RLI BioSyn in early direct-injected cars ~10 years ago or so. Some of those cars had hideous fuel dilution issues, and RLI BioSyn (particularly the custom-formulated 5w-40 HD grade) seemed particularly good at dealing with that. In a case like that, there's a solid reason to go for that oil if you have that specific issue. That's the kind of thing that might persuade me to try a boutique brand oil again -- if I had good evidence that it could solve a specific problem that I knew my engine had.

Barring that, it's really tough to say what the benefit of a boutique oil is. By that, I don't mean there isn't a benefit; I literally mean it's hard to know whether there is one.
Most of the time with those brands, there's simply no good way for us customers to tell what's real and what's just marketing.

FWIW, one thing that sets Motul apart from Amsoil and Red Line is that they do make products with those third-party approvals. So there's that.

 

[Wick]

For a Honda I would try some Eneos Full Synthetic , I run the 5w20 in my 2016 F150 5.0 , its factory fill for all cars coming out of Japan .