Bought a '07 Harlet Heritage Softail Classic !!

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Congratulations on the new Harley.
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My first Harley was a Softail Custom. I now have an Ultra. You will spend many hours "bonding". The SERT and pipes are a real bonus. I just installed the Stage 1 kit on mine really opened it up. I had computer updated, no SERT. No Dino numbers, maybe later.
The Chrome Super Premium is HD filter. HD filter is 5 micron and synthetic media. A very good oil filter, Amsoil filters are a little cheaper, with PC. I bought 2 Amsoil filters but have not used them yet. Happy riding!!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: hd2002
The Chrome Super Premium is HD filter. HD filter is 5 micron and synthetic media. A very good oil filter, Amsoil filters are a little cheaper, with PC. I bought 2 Amsoil filters but have not used them yet. Happy riding!!!!!!!!


Thanks...

Amsoil EAO is cheaper in price or in quality...??
 
This is what I picked up so far to "bond better"...
LOL.gif


A lightly smoked windshield.

Chrome Visor rings for around all the lights.

Chrome handlebar cap sockets.

I want Chrome Forks and front cover plate also...
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: wizzells
Fuel tanker...
I truly am curious how much lead is used in the bearings of these engines. In the crankshaft you have a pressed in crank pin with brass (or some variation thereof) connecting rod bushings.


I thought all the HD v-twin engines had roller bearings for the connecting rods? I'm pretty sure the Evo in my Sportster does.
 
The following Harley did not have an oil cooler... the Redline and the Amsoil both turned in higher than average copper numbers (scroll down to the Amsoil UOA Pablo posted also):

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1105009&fpart=1

Of course Blackstone says the engine may still be breaking in at this under 8000 mile point... but here's a TC88 with low miles and, following the "breaking in" logic, we should see high copper here as well...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post736482

But the above UOA doesn't support Blackstone's notion that a TC88 should naturally be shedding copper at around 8000 miles...


So, looking at the first UOA I have linked, we cannot conclude that oil coolers necessarily cause high copper counts (because that UOA was from a bike with no oil cooler)...

...nor can we conclude that that bike was still breaking in, based on the second UOA I linked, from a bike with similar mileage.

The elevated copper numbers are almost certainly from bearing wear.

Checkmate.
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Addendum: I am not trying to "one up" you guys, and I'm not concerned particularly about winning a whizzing contest here--but I am concerned that proper, cogent information is presented and understood, this for the benefit of those who collect all of the facts before making up their minds. Remember, people will likely access these posts for many years to come, so we need to be comprehensive here.

Dan
 
If you were so concerned with real data you wouldn't use one data point to jump to the conclusions for everyone else. Comprehensive? You posted a single UOA and said it's the best here and cannot be matched. It was matched and beaten.

I'm sorry but copper is not always bearing wear with synthetics, particularly Redline, and to some extent Amsoil. Often times it is chemical cleaning.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
If you were so concerned with real data you wouldn't use one data point to jump to the conclusions for everyone else. Comprehensive? You posted a single UOA and said it's the best here and cannot be matched. It was matched and beaten.

I'm sorry but copper is not always bearing wear with synthetics, particularly Redline, and to some extent Amsoil. Often times it is chemical cleaning.


True: High copper is usually caused by the the oil passavating in the oil cooler. Especially noticable with Redline oils. I have seen this on several Harley baggers with oil coolers. Redline & Amsoil will clean em up real nice inside.

FWIW since Amsoil has the highest viscosity rating (at 100C)versus Redline and Mobil1Vtwin I would recommend that as your first choice because it will usually do the best to soften the Harley TC valvetrain clatter. You won't see this on any scientific data but 20w50 dino is usually the quietest and Amsoil is #2 according to most of the people in the HD community who comment on this. So if you want real quiet go with Brad Penn or Spectro dino. If you want Synthetic (I prefer the heat protection over the noise abatement) then Amsoil is by far the better choice assuming the price is equivalent. JMHO based on lots of chats with Harley Davidson amsoil users. I give a lot of weight to what people use and have good results with versus a UOA. In my travels I only know 1 guy who tried amsoil and switched back to dino and I know at least 20 people who use amsoil.
 
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Originally Posted By: hd2002
Cheaper in price. Would expect quality to be the same or better.

I just pretend bought 2 Amsoil filters and tax, shipping etc. was $33.22 with PC discount. HD website was 13.95 a piece. I guess shipping would be the expense.
 
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
This is what I picked up so far to "bond better"...
LOL.gif


A lightly smoked windshield.

Chrome Visor rings for around all the lights.

Chrome handlebar cap sockets.

I want Chrome Forks and front cover plate also...
grin2.gif


You wasted no time adding accessories
thumbsup2.gif
The chrome forks look really good. Sets off front end.
 
There wasn't an oil cooler on the bike I showed the UOA from, and I mentioned that clearly.

It was thought for some time around here that Redline was really "cleaning" but in successive Redline UOA's on some car engines here, copper continued to be high. Check the Dodge Dakota pick up UOA and you'll see what I mean. The cleaning idea doesn't seem plausible.

High copper is not a good thing in a Harley Davidson engine. When there's no oil cooler to blame it on, one must conclude that metal has come from the bearings.

Now, with the newest Amsoil motorcycle oil which I believe is a group III dino based oil, I'll bet you don't see those copper numbers so high. The group IV's and V's don't appear to be protecting the bearings as well as dino oils do.

Dan
 
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man


Now, with the newest Amsoil motorcycle oil which I believe is a group III dino based oil, I'll bet you don't see those copper numbers so high. The group IV's and V's don't appear to be protecting the bearings as well as dino oils do.



If the data is not believed, alter the facts to match the data. I would love to see the proof here.
 
Pablo, I got the info about the Group III Amsoil motorcycle oil from you (one of your posts).

And here... [no non-sponsor links please]

Assuming that is true--and the oil is group III, I think you will see the copper count drop in Harley UOA's with that oil.

Is there a 20W50 Amsoil group III oil now?

Dan N
 
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Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Pablo, I got the info about the Group III Amsoil motorcycle oil from you (one of your posts).

And here... (no dealer links...)

Assuming that is true--and the oil is group III, I think you will see the copper count drop in Harley UOA's with that oil.

Is there a 20W50 Amsoil group III oil now?

Dan N



I never said the MC or any other oils, other than the XL oils are group III
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The link you provided is fairly ancient info. 2001 or so.

We certainly have discussed this before, though. I think it odd that you believe the only way to get low copper wear is with Group III or lower, when no research actually shows this.

No 20W-50 group III oil from Amsoil.
 
No research shows this...?

The archives here seem to show it. I guess you could argue that this isn't research, but it certainly seems to be evidence.

When the very best that can be dug up is one UOA where iron, aluminum, and chrome are essentially equal (well within the margin of error) to what Havoline car oil did in a similar engine, the case for the expensive oil is hard to make. Impossible to make, truthfully...

Then when you look at copper counts on engines with no oil cooler to attribute the copper numbers to, I think it is convincing.

You have to resort to the presumed extended drain advantage to continue championing a group IV oil over the group III oil at 1/3 the cost. But it is not wise to run extended drains on Harley Davidson engines, due to concerns of fuel dilution.

I switched from Mobil 1 15W50 to Havoline car oil in my bike after looking at the body of UOA's here (and also reading the praises of Havoline in the PCMO forum). I then sent in follow up UOA's on my engine to see if the Havoline was working. Not only was it working, but those UOAs continue to be the best on the board, being equaled in only one case with a boutique group III based oil (LC) which isn't even available now. And the price of that LC oil, seeing that it did no better than the Havoline, would of course be hard to justify even if the product was still available.

Dan
 
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Well, f.t.m., if you wanna run Havoline PCMO in your bike, go for it.

I will be putting in Amsoil when it gets here Monday. There will be a lot of miles put on this Harley and I will do a UOA later this year.
 
fuel tanker man - I switched from once-a-year Amsoil to twice-a-year Havoline 20w50 in my Evo based on the good reports you've shared....

Having said that...

tpitcher - I believe that the Amsoil will help with the extra heat that 96 inch engine puts out...a UOA will be good to see just how much...

Ride Safe...
 
Skunky... that's 44 pages. I got to page 20 something and by that time I'd seen that one goober's black electraglide in his full size signature photo so many times I wanted to go find him and disassemble it and feed it to him one piece at a time. :)

I did not find any posts relevant to oil choices in what I reviewed. I also went to the end and looked at pages 41 through 44... nothing.

Give us the Cliff's Notes version of what you learned there, if you have time. Thanks,

Dan
 
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