Bosch Platinum+4 Spark Plugs

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat

Maybe your eyes are closed since you're probably not seeing quality issues with the F-35 program.
It's like TSA bragging they caught something, but further details showed they missed something just as important also.


It doesn't matter - -

NOT ONE single person on this thread has provided any information whatsoever that would convince ANYONE that "Hey, these plugs are great, everyone should run them"

Trav says they aren't garbage.... big whoppee deal, lots of plugs aren't garbage.

There isn't any evidence that supports these are worth installing in any car.

I said.... "prove me wrong".....
no one can.

It's because these plugs are the "Royal Purple" of the spark plug world.... they cost a lot with NO benefit, other than a lighter wallet (over a comparable product)

Bosch +4 are obsolete.
Obsolete often = garbage

 

[Trav]

IMO the issues some people had with the +4 is because Bosch may have tried to cover too broad a spectrum with the US and Japanese engines. NGK also makes the +4 design but has not attempted to cover the whole aftermarket line with them.

This is an interesting article..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2090447912000883

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Linctex
It doesn't matter - -

NOT ONE single person on this thread has provided any information whatsoever that would convince ANYONE that "Hey, these plugs are great, everyone should run them"

Trav says they aren't garbage.... big whoppee deal, lots of plugs aren't garbage.

There isn't any evidence that supports these are worth installing in any car.

I said.... "prove me wrong".....
no one can.

It's because these plugs are the "Royal Purple" of the spark plug world.... they cost a lot with NO benefit, other than a lighter wallet (over a comparable product)

Bosch +4 are obsolete.
Obsolete often = garbage

No one is saying everyone should run them. YOU made the blanket statement.

The fact that they are still sold and run in thousands of engines is proof enough - they're not garbage.

I'm sorry you had trouble with them in your engine, but it is a valid design that some OEMs DO use.

 

[clinebarger]

Bosch DOES NOT recommend a +2 or +4 plug for a 2002 Accord-J30A1, Bosch has one of the better online catalogs.......They offer 3 different replacement plugs for this application.

Part # 6707, OE Fine Wire Platinum.
Part # 9651, OE Fine Wire Double Iridium.
Part # 8105, OE Fine Wire Double Platinum.
Footnote under each recommenced plug......"Installation Restrictions: Do Not Gap, Gap is Preset, Original equipment is double platinum"

I highly doubt any of the three above plugs would cause ANY problems......

 

[Trav]

^ This.

 

[willbur]

"Don't Porsche's come with Bosch plugs ??"

Mine came with Beru (owned by Federal Mogul that also owns Champion )

 

[PandaBear]

From what I heard Bosch and Honda/Toyota usually don't mix well. Maybe not because of quality issue but rather calibration. That said, my FIL's Camry had Bosch +4 in there and it seems to be ok. If it is cheap enough on an engine that's easy to replace I'd not mind giving it a try.

Originally Posted by skyactiv
You know whats funny? My wifes Audi and my VW were assembled in Germany and have a lot of Bosch parts on them, but they came with NGK spark plugs from the factory.


Not really funny. Manufacturer wants 2nd or 3rd sources for reliability and price reason. If NGK wants to spend the R&D money to get into the market they will get in.

I also had the platinum IR fusion on my dad's Taurus. Didn't keep it long enough (trade in) to see it is good, but it had a bad plug (carbon trace) when I pull it so anything would be better.

 

[Linctex]

So..... the BIG question is really this...

If so many other plugs (mainly the fine wire variants) are so superior to the Bosch +4 design,

Why do they bother making & selling them?

My best guess = they know it's just a gimmick. But, some people will still buy them, anyway.

 

[PandaBear]

Superior and compatible are not the same thing. Why do they bother making and selling them? People like to buy what they know, maybe they have been using +4 and were fine with it, and don't want to change a thing. Maybe they are old stock from the out of fashion time, maybe they are for another application and they also work, so might as well add a couple more choice.

Just like we have so many different kinds of engine oil instead of everyone switching to only 3.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by willbur

"Don't Porsche's come with Bosch plugs ??"

Mine came with Beru (owned by Federal Mogul that also owns Champion )


The last time I used Beru with any regularity (mostly in French cars) they were still independent and had excellent products for gas and diesel, I have used Beru glow plugs since the takeover and found them to be high quality.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat


Iridiums with standard ground electrode, you still need to change them often. I barely get 20,000 miles out of a NGK BKR7EIX, and NGK does not make a Laser iridium equivalent.

Iridiums with platinum tipped ground electrode, or iridium tipped ground electrode, that is what I would use. Honda and Toyota uses iridiums with platinum tipped ground electrodes.


Yes, I was referring to the latter, the iridium with platinum ground

Does Denso offer an Iridium Long Life for the car you use the NGK IX on? The Denso Long Life is the one with the platinum ground. The Denso Iridium TT is also very good, and has a platinum ground as well. Both are good for over 100k

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by UG_Passat

Maybe your eyes are closed since you're probably not seeing quality issues with the F-35 program.
It's like TSA bragging they caught something, but further details showed they missed something just as important also.


It doesn't matter - -

NOT ONE single person on this thread has provided any information whatsoever that would convince ANYONE that "Hey, these plugs are great, everyone should run them"

Trav says they aren't garbage.... big whoppee deal, lots of plugs aren't garbage.

There isn't any evidence that supports these are worth installing in any car.

I said.... "prove me wrong".....
no one can.

It's because these plugs are the "Royal Purple" of the spark plug world.... they cost a lot with NO benefit, other than a lighter wallet (over a comparable product)

Bosch +4 are obsolete.
Obsolete often = garbage

Obsolete is often not garbage. There are instances where the replacement is worse than the original.

Bosch platinums not the royal purple of the spark plug world, as they are often very inexpensive. They are a byproduct of the 80's spark plug market and Bosch was on to something with it's small diameter electrode, as today platinum plugs have reduced diameter electrode and even smaller for iridium alloy. If they cost nearly $20 per plug, then you would have a point about being the Royal Purple of spark plugs.

And as mentioned the multiple ground electrode technology has spread to OEM applications. There is a chance that too much ground electrode is present that it is hindering the flame kerbal production, a byproduct of less robust models compared to the equations and assumptions of the models of the 2000's plus.

There was no point in bragging that you're a quality inspector on the final assembly for the $100 million per F35 program. It does not bring you any credibility to the conversation, especially concerning the quality issues as it relates to the stealth defects that is plaguing the program with its quality escapement that was not caught by people like you. It is probably a KPP requirement, the Government acceptance does not like discovering quality critical escapements. It actually makes you less credible.

The DoD IG audit hammered LM in 2013 with the lack of compliance to AS9100 standard and its findings are still unresolved. (That report is public information)

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The DoD IG audit hammered LM in 2013 with the lack of compliance to AS9100 standard and its findings are still unresolved. (That report is public information)


I wasn't working at LM back then, so big whoopee.

I stand by what I said - - - not one person here will be brave enough to come out and say that Bosch +4's are great plugs, a great idea, etc. etc. etc.

the best anyone will do is say thet worked OK for them. So do the plain Jane AC Delco, Autolite, etc etc.

If they DO NOT work BETTER than plain standard spark plugs, they are garbage. That's that.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
There was no point in bragging that you're a quality inspector on the final assembly for the $100 million per F35 program. It does not bring you any credibility to the conversation, especially concerning the quality issues as it relates to the stealth defects that is plaguing the program with its quality escapement that was not caught by people like you.


Trying to discredit me for the actions of a company that employs 100,000 people is childish and immature. I don't have any association with final finishes or radar cross section anyway.

If I told you I was on the F-22 program, would you be impressed?

I still say Bosch +4 are junk when so many other MUCH better spark plug designs exist.

 

[Trav]

You didn't say anything just a rant with no proof. For someone who claims such qualifications you sure show a lack of the ability to use data or even reasonable arguments to make your point.
If you said something like eg "they show that when subjected to higher temps it causes the internal resistance to increase causing misfires" then show some data to prove it that would be a statement that could be researched and discussed. Instead you posted a loud meaningless opinion post.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by Trav
You didn't say anything just a rant with no proof. For someone who claims such qualifications you sure show a lack of the ability to use data or even reasonable arguments to make your point.
If you said something like eg "they show that when subjected to higher temps it causes the internal resistance to increase causing misfires" then show some data to prove it that would be a statement that could be researched and discussed. Instead you posted a loud meaningless opinion post.


Well, I would have to agree this entire board would improve overall if everyone were held to such a high standard of "providing proof".... which happens very seldom.

Quite often, said "proof" is something very simple, like a UOA that doesn't really prove anything.

Regardless.... My opinion is what it is.
I'm still going to say they are a vastly inferior design.
Not one person has stepped up to the plate ... YET ... and said "They are a superior design". n

Not even you, Trav. You've barely even said you tolerate their existence, but you certainly do not condone their use.... unless I missed it somewhere.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by Linctex
So..... the BIG question is really this...

If so many other plugs (mainly the fine wire variants) are so superior to the Bosch +4 design,

Why do they bother making & selling them?

My best guess = they know it's just a gimmick. But, some people will still buy them, anyway.



I generally agree that the Bosch +2/+4 plugs are a gimmick (they are NOT the same as OE multi-prong designs)

However, there is one place where the +4 is a good choice. The Platinum-Ir Fusion plugs are a godsend in Toyota's 1MZ transverse V6. The 1MZ is a waste-spark ignition design that uses 2-prong Denso/NGK platinums that cost $10 each and are only good for 60k. And the spark plug is a VERY difficult job that's almost impossible on those cars! The ONLY multi-prong iridium that I know of for those cars is, you guessed it, the Bosch Platinum-Ir Fusion! It uses 4 prongs and is iridium, so it is good for 100k, about twice as long as the OE platinum spec. So you won't have to do it again for a LONG time

 

[StevieC]

It's funny that when this question about Bosch parts like Spark Plugs is raised the same defender comes out to beat down the numerous members that have completely opposite experiences with their products.

Furthermore it's not like these members are recommending some other brand without merit, they are recommending to stick with the OE plug brand. Which in itself is good advice because it's what the manufacturer put in it to begin with. They obviously had a reason to use this to begin with.

Funny how that works.

 

[Trav]

Unless the engine required a multi ground plug I don't use them, not that a haven't and without any issues but since they introduced the OE fine wire I prefer to use them because of their longevity and accurate heat range.

If Bosch recommends the +4 for a particular application I have no problem using them. Surface gap plugs work great in the applications they were intended for but not so well in car engines, that doesn't make them garbage.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
The ONLY multi-prong iridium that I know of for those cars is, you guessed it, the Bosch Platinum-Ir Fusion! It uses 4 prongs and is iridium, so it is good for 100k, about twice as long as the OE platinum spec. So you won't have to do it again for a LONG time

Yes, that makes perfect sense to me.


Originally Posted by Trav
If Bosch recommends the +4 for a particular application I have no problem using them.


That may be true..... but, do you ever recommend them?