BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS

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I believe that the filters were hooked up to an engine for downsteam restriction.

I totally agree that a flow dependant test is better.

Standard flow (whether measured or not via "drop test" ie stop watch and a measured container) is attainable by a given rpm from the oil pump, which is positive displacement. After determining the bypass pressure (by serverly dead heading it) ..one merely fixes the pumps rpms using any number of cheap "tach-speedometers" (like for a bicycle).

That is, you really don't need a flow meter to get useful data ...and I fully agree that the fluid should simulate the SUS of (I don't care what weight) oil at 212 degrees. This should level the playing field so you can accurately determine fitler effectivness.
 
I didnt see this mentioned (I admit I didnt read all 10 pages) but pressure drop across a filter is not a good way to determine flow or filtering ability. To measure flow, a flow meter or method of measuring the output is needed, to measure filtering ability, a particulate test is needed. Becuase an oil filter is pumping oil into the system of calibrated oil passages in an engine block, not back to a bucket, pressure drop across the media into a bucket isnt really telling me anything. This isnt meant to diminish the excellent tests and effort put into them, I'm just trying to understand what the results are telling me.
 
I just thought I'd bump this back up with an observation I had today. My 03 Vibe is equipped with an Amsoil BMK-13 DR bypass with SDF15 and BE90 filters. It went in for some routine maintenance today so I told them to test the oil pressure while they were at it(the car has no gauge, just a light). What I read further back in this thread had me concerned. They said it had 70psi. I asume this is with the oil fairly cold and a second test with a hot engine would have been nice but I doubt that would have yielded poor results anyways.
 
They tapped the gauge into the block where the OEM pressure sender goes. This port is located after the filters flow-wise so the engine was indeed getting normal pressure.
 
I will second Olympic's results. As most of you know I have an '03 Mercury Marauder. Well to make a long story kinda short, the cylinder heads have a cooling issue on #6,7,8. This causes the valves to get hot and "tick".

Took it to the dealer, they saw the AMSOIL BMK-13 DR on my machine, and said wait a minute. They tested the oil pressure at the cylinder heads(hot). All tested out good, and they replced the driver side cylinder head. I have an OASIS report to confirm this.

All this was with AMSOIL TSO 0W30, BE-90, and SDF-15. I am now running ASL 5W30.
 
Olympic, 1 BAD 03 MM,

Thanks, its good to know that. I was getting a pretty worried. Besides, I find it very hard to believe the Amsoil didn't do a simple bench test to see what the output pressure would be.

Not sure why Bob got the results he got.
 
Hey Bob, I am new here but I am a Mechanical Engineer that might be able to give a little advice:

1. If you hook up a differential pressure gauge (between inlet & outlet), you will be able to see the pressure difference as the volume increases. You would also probably be able to see when the bypass valve opens (as a sharp drop in differential pressure)

2. If I were to put together a DOE, I would connect a diff. pressure sensor and a flow meter to a computer and plot flow vs. pressure diff. The non-expensive way to do this would be to manually plot the differential pressure vs. motor RPM (which you could translate to flow)eg. in 500rpm increments...

Ps. great work you are doing! wish I could do something like this but working 6-8pm limits this.
 
Purolater says:
PureOne filters meet the flow requirements of automotive applications. We
test our filters per SAE specification HS806 Chapter 1, and the standard
flow rate requirement that we follow states that the pressure differential
(between inlet and outlet) shall not exceed 3.0 psi at a flow rate of 3.0
gpm. On the PL30001 filters, flow restriction is 0.8 psi (avg) at 3.0 gpm.
++++++++++++++++++
I bet this test is done at an elevated temperature - anyone know??
Why aren't we using an SAE test rather than a lets make up out own?????
 
quote:

Originally posted by Kevin in Texas:
This was a great study. Were the results ever published in an excel file. If so, how can I get a copy of the results.

I second this........Do we have a table or an excel file showing the results? Would love to be able to print it out.

Jason
 
I have read a lot of the posts, but without reading all of them I have one question. Was there ever any restriction placed on the outlet hose to simulate the restrictions you would encounter inside the engine? I would think that if these restrictions were present there would be far less difference in the inlet and outlet pressures of the filter being tested. If you completely closed of the outlet line the pressures would be equal on both sides of the filter.

Thanks,
 
true
thats why some standard test method is needed - probably the SAE (society of automotive engineers) tests that purolater uses

this testing by using homemade rigs does not tell the tale esp with cold oil
 
quote:

Was there ever any restriction placed on the outlet hose to simulate the restrictions you would encounter inside the engine?

Yes, it was put into an engine ..I believe via a remote adapter plate.

If there was NO restriction on the outlet..you would see NO pressure down stream of the filter (unless the hose was very ...very long (maybe 100 ft or more).
 
To be meaningful, you should arrange the test stand to provide constant flow of oil. Turn that 302 pump at 1000 rpm or so (4000 engine rpm) to provide a realistic flow rate. Then adjust your return valve to put 40psi on the system with no filter. Then start flow-testing the filters and measuring pressure drops. Using 200 degree oil would be more realistic too. Maintaining your cold oil test at 70 degrees must be difficult as the pumping will quickly heat it up and change the test results as the oil warms and thins

The by-pass valve open points can be checked by starting at zero flow and slowly increasing the flow until the outlet pressure no longer drops. That's the point at which the valve begins to open.. You may have to use 40 or 50 weight oil to get them to open at reasonable flow rates...
 
quote:

you should arrange the test stand to provide constant flow of oil.

I wouldn't expect you to read all that, Caddyman ..but it was mentioned serveral times in the study. It was not a perfect test ..but yielded comparitive data FWIW.
 
About the bypass valves in the filters, or engine, and dual remote filters, the guy that said that the cold oil would affect how the bypasses worked had it right. If the oil's cold it won't go thru the filter so the bypass opens to let oil to the engine. Wouldn't be a good idea to run engine without oil till engine warms the oil.

The filters with built in bypass bypasses unfiltered oil to the block. Block with bypass that use full flo filters will pass unfiltered oil to the block till the oil is warm enough to pass enough oil thru the filter to close the bypass.

The amsoil remote dual filter has a full flo and a bypass filter, right? I think the spring and ball in the body is a bypass for the full flo filter. If the oil is cold the bypass opens to let oil to the bypass filter. If the oil is too cold for that filter to let enough oil thru the built in bypass will open.

A engine doesn't use/flo the same amount of oil at all RPMs. Looking at the heads with valve cover off you can see that. The higher the rpm the more oil flows thru the bearings. The higher the rpm the more oil passes thru the pump.

Oil pressure is the pressure between the pump and the oil channels. If there isn't enough flo thru the filter to pressurise the path between the filter and oil channels to within the 3, 8, or 20 lbs of the path between the pump and the bypass, the bypass opens to allow oil to the engine. If the pre bypass is 20 lbs pressure, the bypass will open if the post bypass is 3, 8, or 20 psi less, and the same applies at 40 psi or 80 psi or 120 psi.

The DR's larger micron bypass filter filters the bypassed oil from the smaller micron full flo till the oil warms up enough to pass thru the full flo. I would think a small electric oil pump to prime the oil passages would be better than filtering the bypassed oil from the full flo for only a few minutes. Something like a pre-oiler used for newly built engines.
 
About the bypass valves in the filters, or engine, and dual remote filters, the guy that said that the cold oil would affect how the bypasses worked had it right. If the oil's cold it won't go thru the filter so the bypass opens to let oil to the engine. Wouldn't be a good idea to run engine without oil till engine warms the oil.

Perhaps ..but you're going on the assumption of an empty oil filter pushing into a void. This is rarely the case. You have no idea of what back pressure the downstream oil system puts on the media. The filter oil sees the differential. It's also experiencing a radical drop in velocity in the filter can. If you strectch out the filter media into a panel (like many of out air filters have) you would have a, less than, 1/2 diameter flow spreading out over 90-150 square inches of media. Sorta like being on a one lane highway and then having the road broaden out into 50 lanes wide ..and then choking back into 1 lane again. Traffic, so to speak, is at a crawl through the filter.

The filters with built in bypass bypasses unfiltered oil to the block. Block with bypass that use full flo filters will pass unfiltered oil to the block till the oil is warm enough to pass enough oil thru the filter to close the bypass.

See above

The amsoil remote dual filter has a full flo and a bypass filter, right? I think the spring and ball in the body is a bypass for the full flo filter. If the oil is cold the bypass opens to let oil to the bypass filter. If the oil is too cold for that filter to let enough oil thru the built in bypass will open.

Not really The sprung restriction is to force flow to the bypass when the oil is warm. The oil pump IS going to pump what it is going to pump. When warm ...it flows like water. If they didn't have that sprung restrictor ..it would take many miles to accumulate enough resistance in the ff for it to route enough oil through the bypass filter. The flow divides based on resistance. I KNOW this since I ran these filters in parallel without the sprung restrictor. The bypass barely got hot when new ..when the sump had 7k on it ..both were hot.

A engine doesn't use/flo the same amount of oil at all RPMs. Looking at the heads with valve cover off you can see that. The higher the rpm the more oil flows thru the bearings. The higher the rpm the more oil passes thru the pump.

Oil pumps are postive displacement pumps xx rpms ..xx gallons of flow. The limits in volume are due to rpms or the relief settings on the internal relief springs in the pump. Terminal pressure is a different matter.

Oil pressure is the pressure between the pump and the oil channels. If there isn't enough flo thru the filter to pressurise the path between the filter and oil channels to within the 3, 8, or 20 lbs of the path between the pump and the bypass, the bypass opens to allow oil to the engine. If the pre bypass is 20 lbs pressure, the bypass will open if the post bypass is 3, 8, or 20 psi less, and the same applies at 40 psi or 80 psi or 120 psi.

I'm not sure I can catch everything you said there ...but X gpm of flow through a given conduit produces XX psig. Since we're dealing with "flow dictated" dynamics, most of our perceptions of "pressure/resistanc" models are somewhat moot. The changes are more along the line of changing velocities. The flow remains the same (LZ -the song remains the same).

The DR's larger micron bypass filter filters the bypassed oil from the smaller micron full flo till the oil warms up enough to pass thru the full flo.

Help me out with this just a little
confused.gif

I would think a small electric oil pump to prime the oil passages would be better than filtering the bypassed oil from the full flo for only a few minutes. Something like a pre-oiler used for newly built engines.

This part I can agree with. At least to the point that a preoiler does some good things.

Help me out with the rest of my confusion
smile.gif
 
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