Well I can't say if his logic was saying that or not. But I tend to think that that if a BMW is driven a low speeds in cold weather, Mobil 1 5W30 has enough HTHS qualities for a BMW engine. It's just hard for me to imagine what would make a BMW engine require more than most every other modern engine in N. America. If you're not running it year around and in all kinds of high speed driving conditions, I don't think it would cuase a problem.
BMW oil Specification Question... Puzzling?
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Nope it doesn't, and why is it only Americans think like this? Why do you think BMW and the oil companies spent millions coming up with LL01 as the engine design shears oil rapidly. E46 M3 requires 10W60, are you going to put 5W30 in it? Don't answer that, I think I already know your answer.
Well maybe if BMW was so smart to begin with they could design a high performance engine that doesn't shear oil so bad it needs a 10W60, like all manufactures in N. America can
. Heck formula 1 engines don't run oil anywhere near that heavy.
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I give up. Goodnight!
Originally Posted By: sprintman
CATERHAM you bestter go back to school! (engines don't rum 150C oil temps) BMW set the spec as min HTHS 3.5, it's you that thinks you know better than BMW, not me mate.
Originally Posted By: sprintman
CATERHAM you bestter go back to school! (engines don't rum 150C oil temps) BMW set the spec as min HTHS 3.5, it's you that thinks you know better than BMW, not me mate.
Sprintman, I think you should go back to school and first learn how to spell.
It's not uncommon for sump oil temps to hit 150C. M3's can do it on a hot day at the track. The new Nissan 370's oil temp's can exceed 150C even on the street on a very hot day.
And yes I would have no problem running a 0W-5 fully formulated oil (if one existed) in the winter if the oil temp never got above say 40C.
To my way of thinking it is ALL about the operational viscosity of the oil not the oil's SAE grade that is important. And I am not the only one who is from that "school of thought". Many more knowledgeable than me are of that "school".
CATERHAM you bestter go back to school! (engines don't rum 150C oil temps) BMW set the spec as min HTHS 3.5, it's you that thinks you know better than BMW, not me mate.
Originally Posted By: sprintman
CATERHAM you bestter go back to school! (engines don't rum 150C oil temps) BMW set the spec as min HTHS 3.5, it's you that thinks you know better than BMW, not me mate.
Sprintman, I think you should go back to school and first learn how to spell.
It's not uncommon for sump oil temps to hit 150C. M3's can do it on a hot day at the track. The new Nissan 370's oil temp's can exceed 150C even on the street on a very hot day.
And yes I would have no problem running a 0W-5 fully formulated oil (if one existed) in the winter if the oil temp never got above say 40C.
To my way of thinking it is ALL about the operational viscosity of the oil not the oil's SAE grade that is important. And I am not the only one who is from that "school of thought". Many more knowledgeable than me are of that "school".
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well I can't say if his logic was saying that or not. But I tend to think that that if a BMW is driven a low speeds in cold weather, Mobil 1 5W30 has enough HTHS qualities for a BMW engine.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well maybe if BMW was so smart to begin with they could design a high performance engine that doesn't shear oil so bad it needs a 10W60, like all manufactures in N. America can
. Heck formula 1 engines don't run oil anywhere near that heavy.
You seem very perceptive and highly qualified on this topic. Why don't you submit a job application to BMW as a powertrain engineer and let us know what they say?
Well I can't say if his logic was saying that or not. But I tend to think that that if a BMW is driven a low speeds in cold weather, Mobil 1 5W30 has enough HTHS qualities for a BMW engine.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well maybe if BMW was so smart to begin with they could design a high performance engine that doesn't shear oil so bad it needs a 10W60, like all manufactures in N. America can
You seem very perceptive and highly qualified on this topic. Why don't you submit a job application to BMW as a powertrain engineer and let us know what they say?
I think some of you are looking at this question from the wrong direction. Start with the fact that using a BMW approved oil in a BMW engine for which it is specified is a known good thing to do. It logically follows from this that in deviating from those specs you will be accepting some degree of risk and uncertainty regarding the performance and suitability of the oil.
Then the question to ask yourself is what gain do you expect to get as a trade off for accepting what uncertainty consequent to deviating from certain properties of the BMW approved oils?
To properly answer that question of course, you need to know the general properties of BMW oil and their relative significance. There's already plenty of info for that available on this website, so I won't belabor it here.
But in quick response to a few issues brought up already -
* yes, HTHS is measured at 150*C. Likewise kinematic viscosity is measured at 40*C and 100*C, and cold cranking viscosity and low temp pumping viscosity are also measured at specific temperatures. Since viscosity does vary by temperature, for the measurement and data to be consistent and comparable the specific temperature at which to conduct the testing needs to be held constant. This in no way means that those are the only temperatures at which your engine is expected to operate.
* HTHS is significant. Studies have found increases in HTHS to correlate with decreases in wear. The ACEA oil sequences very specifically distinguish amongst oils based on HTHS, making it pretty much the only distinguishing property between and A3 and an A5 oil. The SAE J300 standard that defines viscosity grades was revised in 2007 (and effective as of May 2009) ups the HTHS requirement of 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 oils to 3.5 vice the previous 2.9. The J300 requirement for xW-30 oils remains 2.9, so one way to look at BMW's HTHS requirement is that they want an xW-30 oil to offer the same wear protection as at least a xW-40 oil (or a 15w40 or xW-50+ under the prior J300 standard).
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
Then the question to ask yourself is what gain do you expect to get as a trade off for accepting what uncertainty consequent to deviating from certain properties of the BMW approved oils?
To properly answer that question of course, you need to know the general properties of BMW oil and their relative significance. There's already plenty of info for that available on this website, so I won't belabor it here.
But in quick response to a few issues brought up already -
* yes, HTHS is measured at 150*C. Likewise kinematic viscosity is measured at 40*C and 100*C, and cold cranking viscosity and low temp pumping viscosity are also measured at specific temperatures. Since viscosity does vary by temperature, for the measurement and data to be consistent and comparable the specific temperature at which to conduct the testing needs to be held constant. This in no way means that those are the only temperatures at which your engine is expected to operate.
* HTHS is significant. Studies have found increases in HTHS to correlate with decreases in wear. The ACEA oil sequences very specifically distinguish amongst oils based on HTHS, making it pretty much the only distinguishing property between and A3 and an A5 oil. The SAE J300 standard that defines viscosity grades was revised in 2007 (and effective as of May 2009) ups the HTHS requirement of 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 oils to 3.5 vice the previous 2.9. The J300 requirement for xW-30 oils remains 2.9, so one way to look at BMW's HTHS requirement is that they want an xW-30 oil to offer the same wear protection as at least a xW-40 oil (or a 15w40 or xW-50+ under the prior J300 standard).
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
Originally Posted By: E365
Mobil1 1 0w-40 is the only BMW LL-01 oil that you don't have to search for in the US.
Not true. GC is available and it meets LL-01. From Castrol's website
SAE 0W–30:
Castrol SYNTEC 0W–30 European Formula is engineered to meet the Mercedes Benz 229.5 specification. The 0W–30 viscosity grade is ideal for winter conditions where low temperature pumpability is required. A unique, low–temperature formulation provides exceptional pumpability in cold weather and allows for unaided engine starts down to –40ºF. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01; MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5; BMW LL–01; GM–LLA–025, GM–LL–B–025 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
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What I'm getting at is that unless the BMW owner is an "enthusiast", there's no way one would know to use such oils. I blame BMW. They have notoriously been vague at best with their fluid specs.
Can Mobil 1 5w30 really be THAT bad for a 15 year old BMW that was built before any BMW LL spec existed. Or before synthetic oils were even on the market?
Can't disagree with you here. While I don't own a BMW, I do feel they have done a poor job educating their customers about proper oil use. Many NA owners prefer to do maintenance at home instead of taking their car to the dealer. An educated owner base would only help BMW owners better care for their cars.
I also agree on oil usage for a 15 year old car. At this point, the oil is being used is less important as long as its a quality product and is changed frequently. My only caveat would be if the owner relies on the SES light to determine OCI's. Then, yeah, gotta use the proper oil as the SES system is calibrated for it.
Mobil1 1 0w-40 is the only BMW LL-01 oil that you don't have to search for in the US.
Not true. GC is available and it meets LL-01. From Castrol's website
SAE 0W–30:
Castrol SYNTEC 0W–30 European Formula is engineered to meet the Mercedes Benz 229.5 specification. The 0W–30 viscosity grade is ideal for winter conditions where low temperature pumpability is required. A unique, low–temperature formulation provides exceptional pumpability in cold weather and allows for unaided engine starts down to –40ºF. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01; MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5; BMW LL–01; GM–LLA–025, GM–LL–B–025 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
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What I'm getting at is that unless the BMW owner is an "enthusiast", there's no way one would know to use such oils. I blame BMW. They have notoriously been vague at best with their fluid specs.
Can Mobil 1 5w30 really be THAT bad for a 15 year old BMW that was built before any BMW LL spec existed. Or before synthetic oils were even on the market?
Can't disagree with you here. While I don't own a BMW, I do feel they have done a poor job educating their customers about proper oil use. Many NA owners prefer to do maintenance at home instead of taking their car to the dealer. An educated owner base would only help BMW owners better care for their cars.
I also agree on oil usage for a 15 year old car. At this point, the oil is being used is less important as long as its a quality product and is changed frequently. My only caveat would be if the owner relies on the SES light to determine OCI's. Then, yeah, gotta use the proper oil as the SES system is calibrated for it.
What are they supposed to do, take out billboards on the highway?
The information is not hard to find. It's spelled out plainly in the owner's manuals and all the service docs. If you care about your "expensive/high performance/nice" car, you'll ask a question or two or -- gasp! -- read the owner's manual.
The information is not hard to find. It's spelled out plainly in the owner's manuals and all the service docs. If you care about your "expensive/high performance/nice" car, you'll ask a question or two or -- gasp! -- read the owner's manual.
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Quote:
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
I don't agree. I'd sum it up that BMW (and MB and Audi and VW) went to great pains to assure that their fully packaged and complete chassis can operate to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely ..and spec oils with that full integrity in mind.
To think that those standards were taking grocery getting or normal commuting into account, in terms of required lubricant capability..just isn't plausible.
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
I don't agree. I'd sum it up that BMW (and MB and Audi and VW) went to great pains to assure that their fully packaged and complete chassis can operate to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely ..and spec oils with that full integrity in mind.
To think that those standards were taking grocery getting or normal commuting into account, in terms of required lubricant capability..just isn't plausible.
Here is a large write up on BMW factory oil specs.
When I first purchased my bimmer, I about lost it trying to understand what oil was actually ok and what wasn't.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1003372&highlight=bmw+oil
When I first purchased my bimmer, I about lost it trying to understand what oil was actually ok and what wasn't.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1003372&highlight=bmw+oil
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
I don't agree. I'd sum it up that BMW (and MB and Audi and VW) went to great pains to assure that their fully packaged and complete chassis can operate to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely ..and spec oils with that full integrity in mind.
Okay - so now the question is under what circumstances do you think it would be beneficial to use an oil that does not (or may not) support operation to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
To think that those standards were taking grocery getting or normal commuting into account, in terms of required lubricant capability..just isn't plausible.
Sure they do - that's why the API, ACEA, BMW, MB, etc. specifications are comprised of a whole battery of engine and lab tests rather than just one test. Additionally, that's where the service indicator comes into play. for the past decade or more, the service indicator on BMW's is not just a mileage countdown. The exact functioning varies by model and year somewhat, but in most of the more recent models it is driven by fuel consumption rather than mileage.
Quote:
To sum it all up, BMW has taken great pains to first specify and test and approve specific oils suitable for use in their engines "...anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature" and these oils have a typical range of properties. It's your car and you can certainly choose to deviate from those properties, but to do so wisely you should have a good understanding of what trade-off you are making for what expected gain.
I don't agree. I'd sum it up that BMW (and MB and Audi and VW) went to great pains to assure that their fully packaged and complete chassis can operate to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely ..and spec oils with that full integrity in mind.
Okay - so now the question is under what circumstances do you think it would be beneficial to use an oil that does not (or may not) support operation to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
To think that those standards were taking grocery getting or normal commuting into account, in terms of required lubricant capability..just isn't plausible.
Sure they do - that's why the API, ACEA, BMW, MB, etc. specifications are comprised of a whole battery of engine and lab tests rather than just one test. Additionally, that's where the service indicator comes into play. for the past decade or more, the service indicator on BMW's is not just a mileage countdown. The exact functioning varies by model and year somewhat, but in most of the more recent models it is driven by fuel consumption rather than mileage.
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Quote:
Okay - so now the question is under what circumstances do you think it would be beneficial to use an oil that does not (or may not) support operation to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely?
Most of us get to use relatively mundane oils due to our power density. We have none of any appreciable amount ..so we don't need PF Flyer oils with the action wedge to make us run faster and jump higher. We're mostly trotting along.
..but I'll retort with another question. If BMW, MB, VW/AUDI were operating at 80-85mph ....in top gear ..would they need 10w-60 ...or whatever oil that the engineers spec'd for them? Why are these finely crafted engines ..with Teutonic ingenuity oozing (cleanly wiped up with a sterile white cloth) from every pore ...incapable of accomplishing what common grunt domestic droll stuff can do on totally junk oil??
Or are our traditional engines (not so traditional anymore) just too dumb to know that they should be wearing themselves to death?
Nope. I won't buy it.
This is not to say that I'd recommend it to anyone.
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Sure they do - that's why the API, ACEA, BMW, MB, etc. specifications are comprised of a whole battery of engine and lab tests rather than just one test. Additionally, that's where the service indicator comes into play. for the past decade or more, the service indicator on BMW's is not just a mileage countdown. The exact functioning varies by model and year somewhat, but in most of the more recent models it is driven by fuel consumption rather than mileage.
These are issues of oil longevity ..not self destructive wear.
You're telling me I can't use SJ oil because my GM oil life monitor isn't calibrated for it (no, you're not saying this).
So? Assume that I'm going to change it at 10% of whatever the Teutonic geniuses dictate and to heck with what they think.
Okay - so now the question is under what circumstances do you think it would be beneficial to use an oil that does not (or may not) support operation to near 100% of capability almost indefinitely?
Most of us get to use relatively mundane oils due to our power density. We have none of any appreciable amount ..so we don't need PF Flyer oils with the action wedge to make us run faster and jump higher. We're mostly trotting along.
..but I'll retort with another question. If BMW, MB, VW/AUDI were operating at 80-85mph ....in top gear ..would they need 10w-60 ...or whatever oil that the engineers spec'd for them? Why are these finely crafted engines ..with Teutonic ingenuity oozing (cleanly wiped up with a sterile white cloth) from every pore ...incapable of accomplishing what common grunt domestic droll stuff can do on totally junk oil??
Or are our traditional engines (not so traditional anymore) just too dumb to know that they should be wearing themselves to death?
Nope. I won't buy it.
This is not to say that I'd recommend it to anyone.
Quote:
Sure they do - that's why the API, ACEA, BMW, MB, etc. specifications are comprised of a whole battery of engine and lab tests rather than just one test. Additionally, that's where the service indicator comes into play. for the past decade or more, the service indicator on BMW's is not just a mileage countdown. The exact functioning varies by model and year somewhat, but in most of the more recent models it is driven by fuel consumption rather than mileage.
These are issues of oil longevity ..not self destructive wear.
You're telling me I can't use SJ oil because my GM oil life monitor isn't calibrated for it (no, you're not saying this).
So? Assume that I'm going to change it at 10% of whatever the Teutonic geniuses dictate and to heck with what they think.
According to my '96 E36 BMW Owner's Manual two viscosity grades are approved; an Energy Conserving SG 5w30 or a SG 15w40.
The correct grade is determined "according to the average seasonal air temperature". For the 5w30 that's an average seasonal air temperature below 10C. Of course those are both mineral oils.
It goes on to say "you can operate the vehicle for short periods of time at temperatures beyond the range for the SAE rating of the oil being used."
The OCI is determined by the on board OCM which typically will run in my case at least 20,000 kms before an oil change is required.
The typical kinematic 100C vis and HTHS vis of a mid 90's SG 5w30 would be 10-11 cSt and 2.9-3.0 cP.
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
The correct grade is determined "according to the average seasonal air temperature". For the 5w30 that's an average seasonal air temperature below 10C. Of course those are both mineral oils.
It goes on to say "you can operate the vehicle for short periods of time at temperatures beyond the range for the SAE rating of the oil being used."
The OCI is determined by the on board OCM which typically will run in my case at least 20,000 kms before an oil change is required.
The typical kinematic 100C vis and HTHS vis of a mid 90's SG 5w30 would be 10-11 cSt and 2.9-3.0 cP.
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
Originally Posted By: bretfraz
Originally Posted By: E365
Mobil1 1 0w-40 is the only BMW LL-01 oil that you don't have to search for in the US.
Not true. GC is available and it meets LL-01. From Castrol's website
What I meant by that was that even GC (which I use alot) is usually only available at AutoZone. I hear it might be available at PepBoys now, but I've never even seen a Pep Boys. So unless you know it's only at AutoZone and go specifically there for it, you're gonna miss it.
On the other hand the Mobil 1 0w-40 is available at almost every parts store out there, many Wal-Marts, my local Fleet Farm. It's all over the place and really the only oil someone would "stumble upon".
Originally Posted By: E365
Mobil1 1 0w-40 is the only BMW LL-01 oil that you don't have to search for in the US.
Not true. GC is available and it meets LL-01. From Castrol's website
What I meant by that was that even GC (which I use alot) is usually only available at AutoZone. I hear it might be available at PepBoys now, but I've never even seen a Pep Boys. So unless you know it's only at AutoZone and go specifically there for it, you're gonna miss it.
On the other hand the Mobil 1 0w-40 is available at almost every parts store out there, many Wal-Marts, my local Fleet Farm. It's all over the place and really the only oil someone would "stumble upon".
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
According to my '96 E36 BMW Owner's Manual two viscosity grades are approved; an Energy Conserving SG 5w30 or a SG 15w40.
The correct grade is determined "according to the average seasonal air temperature". For the 5w30 that's an average seasonal air temperature below 10C. Of course those are both mineral oils.
It goes on to say "you can operate the vehicle for short periods of time at temperatures beyond the range for the SAE rating of the oil being used."
The OCI is determined by the on board OCM which typically will run in my case at least 20,000 kms before an oil change is required.
The typical kinematic 100C vis and HTHS vis of a mid 90's SG 5w30 would be 10-11 cSt and 2.9-3.0 cP.
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
Your '96 E36 owner's manual precedes most all of the BMW oil specs and even the ACEA oil sequences, so it is somewhat of an obsolete reference, not to mention the technical rigor in most owner's manual is somewhat suspect.
According to my '96 E36 BMW Owner's Manual two viscosity grades are approved; an Energy Conserving SG 5w30 or a SG 15w40.
The correct grade is determined "according to the average seasonal air temperature". For the 5w30 that's an average seasonal air temperature below 10C. Of course those are both mineral oils.
It goes on to say "you can operate the vehicle for short periods of time at temperatures beyond the range for the SAE rating of the oil being used."
The OCI is determined by the on board OCM which typically will run in my case at least 20,000 kms before an oil change is required.
The typical kinematic 100C vis and HTHS vis of a mid 90's SG 5w30 would be 10-11 cSt and 2.9-3.0 cP.
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
Your '96 E36 owner's manual precedes most all of the BMW oil specs and even the ACEA oil sequences, so it is somewhat of an obsolete reference, not to mention the technical rigor in most owner's manual is somewhat suspect.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well I can't say if his logic was saying that or not. But I tend to think that that if a BMW is driven a low speeds in cold weather, Mobil 1 5W30 has enough HTHS qualities for a BMW engine.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well maybe if BMW was so smart to begin with they could design a high performance engine that doesn't shear oil so bad it needs a 10W60, like all manufactures in N. America can
. Heck formula 1 engines don't run oil anywhere near that heavy.
You seem very perceptive and highly qualified on this topic. Why don't you submit a job application to BMW as a powertrain engineer and let us know what they say?
OK how's that here or there? What BMW requires and why they require it is two different questions. Explain why many other manufactures can produce high perfomance engines in higher volume and get by just fine with 20 and 30 wt oil.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well I can't say if his logic was saying that or not. But I tend to think that that if a BMW is driven a low speeds in cold weather, Mobil 1 5W30 has enough HTHS qualities for a BMW engine.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well maybe if BMW was so smart to begin with they could design a high performance engine that doesn't shear oil so bad it needs a 10W60, like all manufactures in N. America can
You seem very perceptive and highly qualified on this topic. Why don't you submit a job application to BMW as a powertrain engineer and let us know what they say?
OK how's that here or there? What BMW requires and why they require it is two different questions. Explain why many other manufactures can produce high perfomance engines in higher volume and get by just fine with 20 and 30 wt oil.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
I can follow this reasoning.
And I would imagine there are used oil analysis on BITOG of BMWs with long OCIs with an oil grade such as 15w40?
My question is, what would the oil's viscosity spec's be after 20,000 kms?
Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think the oil would have sheared solidly into the SAE 20 range?
My running a quality synthetic 20wt in the winter that's changed way more frequently than required would appear to me to meet the viscosity requirements of the manufacturer.
I can follow this reasoning.
And I would imagine there are used oil analysis on BITOG of BMWs with long OCIs with an oil grade such as 15w40?
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