BMW Approved? - I want to try something else...

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Shearing of M1 should be irrelevant being that hths remains unchanged. Thee is simply no reason to us a 15w oil in the m54/52. It subjective at best.


I've never seen a UOA which re-tests HTHS - have you? All I know is that I put in a ~14.0 cSt oil and took out an 11.x cSt oil 6,000km later with no fuel, coolant or water present. If I wanted to run a 30, I'd run a 30. GC which only starts at 12.1 cSt finished thicker than M1 0W40 did and the M1 started significantly thicker.

It's a great oil, but it DOES shear. I'm not sure why it has such a fanboy defense where people continually argue that it "doesn't matter".

On the 15W issue, that's what you get from a 40 weight, dino HDEO. It's not a "feature" that I'm pushing, that's just what they typically are. It is too thick for non-summer weather, unless in a southern clime. As I've already said, my M52 owner's manual recommends 15W40 unless it's so cold that the engine won't start around -18C. Whenever I have run a 15W40 in the summer, I take it out when temps are consistently close to freezing and I've been going back to GC for the winter.

Provided the ambient temperatures are appropriate, there's also nothing wrong with running a 15W40 in an M50/M52/M54/M62.

I'm now running T6 and hoping for all of the properties I love about T but with a cold viscosity more suited to year round use in my climate.

 

[Scout1]

Thanks for clearing me up on the A3/A5 issue. I didn't realize that! So I guess the PP is out but I still might use one of my 15w40 HDEOs. In Seattle it doesn't get very cold and when it does, I don't drive the Z4! I also have RTS in my stash and that should work well even in the cold. Guess I'll save the PP for my other vehicles...

Out of curiosity, why do these German cars need the higher HTHS numbers? I'm just wondering what they design into these engines to make them need that?

 

[dparm]

Probably related to the autobahn usage. The Germans are not stupid though, they wouldn't spec that for no reason.

 

[edvanp]

I have an 02' 530i and have experimented with several different oils. The M1 0w40 is a very good oil, the car ran well on it, but it was a bit noisier and tended to use a little more of it (1 quart per 3k miles). I currently have Roush Racing 10w30 (high Zinc) in it (got a good deal on this oil) and it's pretty quiet and oil consumption is down a bit. I also ran M1 10w30 HM synthetic last summer and I like that oil a lot! Quiet, ran well and the consumption was down compared to the 0w40. I also have run GC and Val.Syn HM. I'd like to try Redline at some point but if I had to chose a favorite, it's the M1 HM Syn. 10w30 which I can get at the local Wallyworld at a good price.

I bought the car with 82k miles (123k on it now) and according to the service records, it was fed a regular dose of Castrol 10w30 Syn every 10-12k miles before I took over. I change it twice a year (fall/spring) and I usually have 6-7k miles on it. I think if you use a quality synthetic oil at either 10w30 or 5w40, you'll be fine. Get whatever is on sale.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edvanp
I also ran M1 10w30 HM synthetic last summer and I like that oil a lot! Quiet, ran well and the consumption was down compared to the 0w40.

Good to hear. This is one of my potential candidates once I finish with PU 5w-40.

 

[Touring5]

Just to add another data point, my M52TU seemed to run quite well on the RTS (T6 now) - as Craig mentioned. My car isn't a daily driver and doesn't get a huge number of miles in a year and I don't do extended OCI's (one per year). IMO, the T6 is a good option.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Shearing of M1 should be irrelevant being that hths remains unchanged. Thee is simply no reason to us a 15w oil in the m54/52. It subjective at best.


I've never seen a UOA which re-tests HTHS - have you? All I know is that I put in a ~14.0 cSt oil and took out an 11.x cSt oil 6,000km later with no fuel, coolant or water present. If I wanted to run a 30, I'd run a 30. GC which only starts at 12.1 cSt finished thicker than M1 0W40 did and the M1 started significantly thicker.

It's a great oil, but it DOES shear. I'm not sure why it has such a fanboy defense where people continually argue that it "doesn't matter".

On the 15W issue, that's what you get from a 40 weight, dino HDEO. It's not a "feature" that I'm pushing, that's just what they typically are. It is too thick for non-summer weather, unless in a southern clime. As I've already said, my M52 owner's manual recommends 15W40 unless it's so cold that the engine won't start around -18C. Whenever I have run a 15W40 in the summer, I take it out when temps are consistently close to freezing and I've been going back to GC for the winter.

Provided the ambient temperatures are appropriate, there's also nothing wrong with running a 15W40 in an M50/M52/M54/M62.

I'm now running T6 and hoping for all of the properties I love about T but with a cold viscosity more suited to year round use in my climate.
I just look for consistency in train of thought and I read time and time again on this board people knocking M1 0w-40 because it will shear to a 30w under a short interval. I take issue with it because #1 it's a lite 40w to begin with,#2 It's a long drain oil and if it shears to 30 but rethickens to 40 in 7-8 k miles I'd say that's a good thing,#3 The suggestion that being 30 is somehow bad. It's akin to me selling you motor oil which never turns black and using that attribute as a selling point.

 

[dparm]

Terry Dyson will test for HTHS for around $200.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
I just look for consistency in train of thought and I read time and time again on this board people knocking M1 0w-40 because it will shear to a 30w under a short interval. I take issue with it because #1 it's a lite 40w to begin with,#2 It's a long drain oil and if it shears to 30 but rethickens to 40 in 7-8 k miles I'd say that's a good thing,#3 The suggestion that being 30 is somehow bad. It's akin to me selling you motor oil which never turns black and using that attribute as a selling point.


I consider it even better if it stayed a light 40 at 7-8k, and was still a light 40 when you took it out after extended drain. I change my oil twice per year, and I end up only putting 7-8k (or a little less) on it. Whether it thickens or not down the road is irrelevant to me. Further, I think that the fact that it thickens later in the OCI may "cover up" the shearing in some of the test sequences. If it's only ever tested by manufacturers after a long drain, then it will look like it is shear stable when, in fact, it spends most of the time it's in the crankcase out of grade.

Being a 30 is "bad" if the bottle it came out of 3000km ago says "40" on it.

You seem to be reading a "30 vs 40" argument into what I said. I'm not arguing "40 is better than 30" in any universal sense. If I've chosen a 40 off the shelf, I expect it to be a 40. Not a "40 for a bit". As I mentioned, I've also run GC and it stays pretty close to its original viscosity over the same time frame and finishes an OCI thicker than M1 0W40 in equivalent conditions and distance.

Again, the defense of "yeah it shears, but it doesn't matter" plus a little bit of "...and that might even be a good thing" that so often comes up when anyone tries to point out a shortcoming of M1 0W40.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Again, the defense of "yeah it shears, but it doesn't matter" plus a little bit of "...and that might even be a good thing" that so often comes up when anyone tries to point out a shortcoming of M1 0W40.

To me the question is whether it has any noticeable effect on engine wear/longevity. And I don't think we have the proof either for or against it. However, I have not heard of any engine failures as a result of using M1 0w-40.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Again, the defense of "yeah it shears, but it doesn't matter" plus a little bit of "...and that might even be a good thing" that so often comes up when anyone tries to point out a shortcoming of M1 0W40.

To me the question is whether it has any noticeable effect on engine wear/longevity. And I don't think we have the proof either for or against it. However, I have not heard of any engine failures as a result of using M1 0w-40.


This is exactly my point.

I stated "It shears". I did not state "...and therefore it will trash your engine".

M1 0W40 is a highly respected oil with lots of OE approvals. It's fully approved to run in the OP's BMW and his engine won't explode because of it. I ran it for 50-60,000km myself with great UOAs (except that it was a 30) but lots of noise (which I came to discover is unique to M1, not being a heavy 30, only after trying other oils). I've stated this much dozens of times in many threads.

If someone else reading this thread *wants* a 40, they should be aware that M1 0W40 will be a 40 for only a couple of thousand kms. If they want something that will stay in grade better, they should look elsewhere. If a reader feels they want something thicker than GC or BMW 5W30 for whatever reason, that isn't M1 0W40 unless sampled at 0km and 20,000km into the OCI.

 

[dparm]

So what if oil shears? People blow that way out of proportion. Worry about maintaining oil pressure, among other things.

 

[KenO]

T6 5w-40. I ran 5k mile OCI's and my ~200 whp M50 saw 7280 rpm's daily, and had no issues. We run T6 in all of the local track cars down here, including the 500+ whp turbo E36's, and it handles the heat just fine. You really can't go wrong, and it's $20 a gallon. Avoid the garbage, overpriced BMW factory oils (except Castrol TWS 10W-60 - probably the ONLY reason the early S54's didn't come apart completely when the bearing recalls were being done).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: KenO
T6 5w-40. I ran 5k mile OCI's and my ~200 whp M50 saw 7280 rpm's daily, and had no issues. We run T6 in all of the local track cars down here, including the 500+ whp turbo E36's, and it handles the heat just fine. You really can't go wrong, and it's $20 a gallon. Avoid the garbage, overpriced BMW factory oils (except Castrol TWS 10W-60 - probably the ONLY reason the early S54's didn't come apart completely when the bearing recalls were being done).
at 6$ a quart the BMW oil is obviously overpriced.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: dparm
So what if oil shears? People blow that way out of proportion. Worry about maintaining oil pressure, among other things.


So if any given oil company released a new 11.5cSt oil in a bottle with "40" on it, there wouldn't be tons of long accusing threads discussing how we're being duped, and the company was untrustworthy, and the oil isn't what it seems from the package?

I'm sure lots of people would be jumping out of the woodwork to defend this company, stating that "it didn't really matter" that it wasn't the grade it said on the bottle. We shouldn't worry about whether it's as thick as it's supposed to be, just make sure you maintain oil pressure. They're a good lot - trust them!

People flipped out when GC changed from green to gold with all of the same specs! To this day people are still using 6 year old hoarded green GC because they don't trust that new gold stuff. There's no numbers to support that GC has changed in any way, but there are numbers all over to support that M1 shears.

Give me a break...

I've stated that it's a property of the oil - period - and it is true and verifiable. Whether YOU think it matters or not isn't an argument against that. All of the other alternatives discussed in the thread don't shear like that - only M1 0W40 does.

If we were comparing two oils and one smelled normal and one smelled like rotting whale flesh it might not matter to lubrication but if someone had a small oil leak or some kind of PCV catch can arrangement on a DI engine and didn't like the smell of rotting whale flesh all day they wouldn't want to buy it. Similarly if a consumer reading this thread wants a 40 that stays a 40, they should avoid M1 0W40. Don't try to tell them that they should just ignore the smell of rotting whale flesh or, worse, try to tell them that it actually smells good because you like whales.

 

[RustyH]

Scout1, I just did my oil change using M1 0W40 in my 2002 BMW 530i. Previously have used mainly GC but also a trial of Rotella T6 and Chevron Supreme 5W40. The latter two felt "thick"--smooth at higher rpm, but engine less responsive.
I like the the M1 0W40--it sounds and feels essentially the same as GC but a little smoother at higher RPM. I definitely did not find it noisy in my M54 engine. NAPA has a $4.99 sale this month on the M1.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
So what if oil shears? People blow that way out of proportion. Worry about maintaining oil pressure, among other things.


So if any given oil company released a new 11.5cSt oil in a bottle with "40" on it, there wouldn't be tons of long accusing threads discussing how we're being duped, and the company was untrustworthy, and the oil isn't what it seems from the package?

I'm sure lots of people would be jumping out of the woodwork to defend this company, stating that "it didn't really matter" that it wasn't the grade it said on the bottle. We shouldn't worry about whether it's as thick as it's supposed to be, just make sure you maintain oil pressure. They're a good lot - trust them!

People flipped out when GC changed from green to gold with all of the same specs! To this day people are still using 6 year old hoarded green GC because they don't trust that new gold stuff. There's no numbers to support that GC has changed in any way, but there are numbers all over to support that M1 shears.

Give me a break...

I've stated that it's a property of the oil - period - and it is true and verifiable. Whether YOU think it matters or not isn't an argument against that. All of the other alternatives discussed in the thread don't shear like that - only M1 0W40 does.

If we were comparing two oils and one smelled normal and one smelled like rotting whale flesh it might not matter to lubrication but if someone had a small oil leak or some kind of PCV catch can arrangement on a DI engine and didn't like the smell of rotting whale flesh all day they wouldn't want to buy it. Similarly if a consumer reading this thread wants a 40 that stays a 40, they should avoid M1 0W40. Don't try to tell them that they should just ignore the smell of rotting whale flesh or, worse, try to tell them that it actually smells good because you like whales.


Your implication is that it's a problem. When people say "but it shears", they're saying that's a problem. Then people qualify that arguement by saying "well I want a 40w" based on subjective reasoning.

 

[JHZR2]

+1. If it tests as 40wt out of the bottle it is 40. We assume that it should stay a 40wt for some thousands of miles or forever. Perhaps the mfrs didnt assume the same, and speccing 30 or 40wt is just part of the overdesign??

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
+1. If it tests as 40wt out of the bottle it is 40. We assume that it should stay a 40wt for some thousands of miles or forever. Perhaps the mfrs didnt assume the same, and speccing 30 or 40wt is just part of the overdesign??


A possible argument - if all of the "competition" sheared in the same way. In fact, only M1 0W40 does it to that extent.

I guess there's just too much love for M1 here to even consider it in the "con" column for the oil, hmm?

I guess I'm completely mistaken - M1 0W40 is the perfect, faultless oil. There is simply no way that it could be improved-upon - it's competition might as well close up shop for there will never be a better oil ever made.

 

[dparm]

I think my reply may have been too simplistic. Oil shearing is not a good thing, but I wouldn't panic just because oil X shears some in standard service. I just don't think people should make it the only thing that guides their oil selection.