BMW Approved? - I want to try something else...

[Scout1]

I bought my 2003 Z4 a year ago (3 liter). My first run was with GC 0w30 and it sounded a little "thrashy" in 1st gear. After a year I changed it with some Castrol 5w40 I had on the shelf and the 40 weight sounds a bit quieter. (I have the old GC oil to send in for an analysis but haven't mailed it off yet)

The car is way out of warranty so that's not a concern and it only has 21k miles on it. My question is I'm thinking of trying some different oils in this car. I don't put a lot of miles on it waiting for top-down weather here in Seattle so I time out on the oil in one year long before the miles are up.

I've really liked Pennzoil Platinum in my other cars and wondered how the 5w30 would do in the Z4? I'm also thinking about using the Pennzoil Ultra 5w30. So does all this "BMW approved" oil hype have anything behind it besides them getting more people to buy their own marketed oil? Is there anything about these BMW engines that really warrant the limited selection of "euro" oils? For that matter, how about RTS 5w40 or a regular 15w40 HDEO?

 

[EricF]

My friend has an 04 325i and was running the castrol synthetic, as spec'd on the oil fill cap.
the maintenance warranty expired on the car and she went to do her first oil change and decided to go with mobil 1. The oil didn't burn or anything, she went the 15k like the oil monitor said.
Went with Amsoil next and noticed a HUGE improvement in performance.. when she mashed the gas the car literally took off.
She can't guage gas mileage.. the car's always running fast.
so she went the 25k with the Amsoil, and changed the filter at 15k like I suggested.
Next oil change she asked me to do it.. I went with the Redline 5w30. I haven't heard any complaints so I'm assuming the Redline passed her test too!

 

[Quattro Pete]

No offense, but have you tried searching? Feels like this subject's been beaten to death on multiple occasions...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: EricF
Went with Amsoil next and noticed a HUGE improvement in performance.. when she mashed the gas the car literally took off.

 

[chubbs1]

Why don't you just use the Syntec 5w40?? On sale a lot and it is good stuff. I would call it at the Syntec and not worry. You Barely even drive. It is on Sale right now at AAP for the month.

 

[dparm]

Mobil 1 0w40. It has surpassed GC, in my opinion. Better HTHS, better VI, and the formula is still being improved.

 

[santov]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
No offense, but have you tried searching? Feels like this subject's been beaten to death on multiple occasions...


Agreed!

Originally Posted By: dparm
Mobil 1 0w40. It has surpassed GC, in my opinion. Better HTHS, better VI, and the formula is still being improved.


Ditto! M1 0w-40 is a great oil. You can see my comparison to OEM Castrol here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil1-0w-40-5006miles-2007-bmw-z4-3-01si-n52.153997/

And a little off topic, but since the OP is my Z4 brother here's a DIY on coolant (instructions for your M54 are at the bottom).

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488476

 

[Craig in Canada]

My M52 was really noisy on M1 0W40 which I stopped running ~5 years ago when I discovered just how much much noise it was causing. If you think GC is noisy, I'd advise against M1 0W40 unless they've completely and radically changed the formula and this "noise" doesn't happen any more. I'm not even going to take the chance to find out since there's so many other good options out there.

I have also found my M52 most quiet (with no impact to fuel economy) on 15W40s like Rotella T and Esso XD3. Unfortunately in my climate I can only run those oils in the summer. I have just switched to Rotella T6 5W40 in hopes of running it all year round with quiet results like T. It's been in about a week. Subjectively (of course) I think it's not QUITE as quiet as T but is noticeably a little more refined sounding than GC (which I had in for the winter).

Since I bought my M52 10 years ago I've run about 50,000km of M1 0W40, over 70,000km of GC, two summers (10,000km) of 15W40 dinos and now I'm just switching to T6.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: EricF
Went with Amsoil next and noticed a HUGE improvement in performance.. when she mashed the gas the car literally took off.

I don't care who you are, you have to admit, that's funny!

 

[Scout1]

I have done some searching but everyone always focuses on using the "approved" BMW oils and it turns into a discussion on M1 0w40 versus GC. Besides, what would you guys talk about if I didn't ask the question again

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: santov

And a little off topic, but since the OP is my Z4 brother here's a DIY on coolant (instructions for your M54 are at the bottom).

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488476




Hey, thanks! I do need to change the coolant this summer. My friend I bought this car off kept it parked most of the time in his garage (lucky me!) so I doubt he ever changed it with such low miles.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada


I have also found my M52 most quiet (with no impact to fuel economy) on 15W40s like Rotella T and Esso XD3. Unfortunately in my climate I can only run those oils in the summer. I have just switched to Rotella T6 5W40 in hopes of running it all year round with quiet results like T. It's been in about a week. Subjectively (of course) I think it's not QUITE as quiet as T but is noticeably a little more refined sounding than GC (which I had in for the winter).



Ahh... now that's what I was looking for. These engines DON'T really need the "euro" oils then? I've tried the T6 in my wife's Audi TT and I can't tell the difference between that stuff and the M1 0w40 I have in her car now.

If the 40 weight oil quiets the racket, I'm wondering if the PP will quiet it using 30 weight? I'd kind of like to have the best of both worlds since the couple of tanks I've run on this Castrol 5w40 seem to be down a bit on fuel mileage...I also note the valve clatter on start-up takes a bit longer to go away on the 5w40 versus the old fill of GC 0w30. So I'd like to find a 30 weight that works well.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Why not try BMW synthetic available at the dealerships? It usually run about 6$ a bottle.

 

[RustyH]

Scout1, I have a 2002 530i, same M54 engine. I have used GC for years, but recently purchased Mobil1 0W40 given all the good things I have read of late on this site. I understand it is a new formulation. I like the GC for a nice quiet idle, but engine is just a little thrashy at 4500+ rpm. I tried a Chevron Supreme 5W40 and Rotella T6 5W40. Both were smoother in the higher rpm ranges, but took something off the responsiveness of the engine. Mobil1 0W40 looks on paper like a compromise to me, it is very close to GC in terms of viscosity but has a higher HTHS. I'll post back my impressions when I do a change in a week or two.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Scout1

Ahh... now that's what I was looking for. These engines DON'T really need the "euro" oils then? I've tried the T6 in my wife's Audi TT and I can't tell the difference between that stuff and the M1 0w40 I have in her car now.


A lot of the "euro" stuff that we usually look for is only most relevant if 1/ you're looking to be as thin as possible (for 30 weights and anything 0W, for instance, you need to look for ACEA A3 to make sure it's high enough HTHS for euro applications) 2/ you want to run extended drain intervals like most euro OLMs indicate. If you're looking at 5W40 and thicker, it's less important to be Euro-specific, IMO, because oils like T6 are higher HTHS by their very nature.


Quote:

If the 40 weight oil quiets the racket, I'm wondering if the PP will quiet it using 30 weight? I'd kind of like to have the best of both worlds since the couple of tanks I've run on this Castrol 5w40 seem to be down a bit on fuel mileage...I also note the valve clatter on start-up takes a bit longer to go away on the 5w40 versus the old fill of GC 0w30. So I'd like to find a 30 weight that works well.


If you're shopping for any kind of 30 weight, look for ACEA A3. If it doesn't have it, move on IMO. If CATERHAM posts here, he'll disagree with me, but this is the route that most euro owners follow.

I'll state that I never felt that GC was making a racket. M1 was making a racket, and it was doing so in multiple grades in multiple vehicles (5W30 in an Acura, 0W40 in a BMW and 15W50 in a Porsche). If I knew then what I know now.... I only just started to think it might be the oil and my jaw dropped when I switched from M1 0W40 to GC in the BMW.

The remaining "issues" I'd like to improve that I notice with GC are a little bit of resonant vibration and noise felt at certain RPM points as the tach sweeps, particularly above 3500rpm. Rotella T eliminated this. Whether it's the increase in viscosity, HTHS, or something else in the formulation I don't know. I just know that from a purely subjective standpoint I liked 15W40 Rotella T the best. GC and M1 both gave great UOA results except that M1 sheared a lot. This is a known property of M1 0w40. I'll be sending the T6 in this fall to make sure it's doing OK, but there are a lot of other people who love T6 so I'm not expecting any problems.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Shearing of M1 should be irrelevant being that hths remains unchanged. Thee is simply no reason to us a 15w oil in the m54/52. It subjective at best.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Why not try BMW synthetic available at the dealerships? It usually run about 6$ a bottle.


Well, that's a good point I guess. I always thought GC was about the same stuff as the BMW oil, but maybe it really will impress me if I give it a try.

 

[Scout1]

Thanks Craig, I appreciate your thoughts. I'm certainly not going for extended drains and your comments about the HEDOs make sense to me on the HTHS. And the PP 5w30 is rated ACEA A5 so it should do fine I would imagine. Interesting to note the Ultra does not show the ACEA rating so I'm not sure if this is just they haven't gone to the trouble of getting it approved or is there something in the Ultra that is lacking.

I've been using 15w40 in my FJR with good results so I may just try some of this in the Z4 and see how it runs. I actually have several jugs in my stash of different brands picked up when they've gone on sale. I'm running some Delvac 1300 now and the bike seems a little less lively than it did on the Delo.

 

[Falcon_LS]

ACEA A5/B5 and A3/B3/B4 are two different specifications. Whilst the A3/B3/B4 specification will have an HTHS of 3.5 cP or greater, A5/B5 will have an HTHS of between 2.9 to 3.4 cP.

BMW's LongLife specifications are based off the A3 specification, so if you want to use a non-approved oil, stick with A3 as the bare minimum, as Craig pointed out.

Personally, I would not use an ACEA A5/B5 rated oil in a Mercedes or BMW engine. It's mostly European Ford products that call for A5/B5 for the sake of fuel economy.

If you're only using this car at certain times of the year, and change your oil once a year, I think it would make sense to use a BMW approved oil (especially given the really low mileage). Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 would be a decent product to use in this application. I think it would be nice to add some Liqui-Moly MoS2 to whatever oil you use as well.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Scout1
Thanks Craig, I appreciate your thoughts. I'm certainly not going for extended drains and your comments about the HEDOs make sense to me on the HTHS. And the PP 5w30 is rated ACEA A5 so it should do fine I would imagine. Interesting to note the Ultra does not show the ACEA rating so I'm not sure if this is just they haven't gone to the trouble of getting it approved or is there something in the Ultra that is lacking.


ACEA A5 is not superior to A3. They are different test sequences. A3 mandates higher minimum HTHS which is what BMW specifies.

Quote:

I've been using 15w40 in my FJR with good results so I may just try some of this in the Z4 and see how it runs. I actually have several jugs in my stash of different brands picked up when they've gone on sale. I'm running some Delvac 1300 now and the bike seems a little less lively than it did on the Delo.


The 15W40 HDEOs are extremely inexpensive and cheap/easy to try but on the thick side unless you're in a warm climate or it's your summer-only oil.

My M52 owner's manual says to use 15W40 down until -18C or something where the engine might not start. I draw the line around freezing, personally.