Well they don't call them Big Money Wasters for nothing. Why would anyone go 19k on factory fill.....that's like child abuse for a car.
BMW 335 Factory Fill Test with 19k miles..Not good
- Thread starter G35_TX
- Start date
- Status
My advice, that was not taken, to a BMW lessor I know was to do normal synth dealer OC for winte and then an extractor change of 15w-40 HDEO for summer. Extra cost of $15 for a well-preserved engine. He's a lawyer and said no thanks, he'd duke it out with BMW if there was a problem under warranty. My thought was what if he decide to keep the car at lease end...he thinks I'm nuts. 2 years on FF oil at 13k...all short trips...whatever.
Quote:
Who's idea was it to go 19,000 miles on the factory fill?
Manufacturer's, of course. Poor owners are just following their manuals (and oil change lights on the dashboard). Can you blame them?
I'm no expert at interpreting UOAs, but I don't see anything too bad here for 19,500 miles on the Factory Fill. The TBN, FP, Fuel, Water, Insolubles are OK. You see a lot of break-in wear metals, but most of that is smaller than 5 microns. Add the wear metals from the first four UOAs of another new engine with 5K OCIs and I'd bet they'd be close. I'm not saying the recommended OCI is ideal, I just don't think this engine is going to grenade as soon as the warranty expires.
On the otherhand, maybe what I wrote above was while my brain was "having one of it's moments" and these factory recommended OCIs is the reason why so many BMWs need 20w50 oils in short order.
On the otherhand, maybe what I wrote above was while my brain was "having one of it's moments" and these factory recommended OCIs is the reason why so many BMWs need 20w50 oils in short order.
WOW german Enineeging is going downhill
427Z06,
Did you have a look at the oil analysis on that bimmerfest.com site? Yikes!
Did you have a look at the oil analysis on that bimmerfest.com site? Yikes!
Does the 335i turbo engine spec BMW's 5W30 or their newer 0W40 oil?
83.7SUS would be a thick 40wt? +16cSt?
I think BMW's warranty dept figured out that it'd be cheaper to chance replacing auto trannies under warranty than it would be to service all those trannies. Same with the diff...
Wear?
72ppm/4 = 18ppm, not bad wear for 5k? But should break-in wear normally continue for another 3 OCI's (+15k)?
83.7SUS would be a thick 40wt? +16cSt?
I think BMW's warranty dept figured out that it'd be cheaper to chance replacing auto trannies under warranty than it would be to service all those trannies. Same with the diff...
Wear?
72ppm/4 = 18ppm, not bad wear for 5k? But should break-in wear normally continue for another 3 OCI's (+15k)?
the recommended OCI for BMW brand oil is 7500 miles in a naturally aspirated engine seeing "Normal" driving habits.
following the monitor leads to excessive sludge formation.
since this is a turbo engine, the semi synth BMW oil should be good for about 6000 miles before changing it. if he wants longer intervals, switch to german castrol and do a couple of 8000 mile UOAs to see how it holds up. change the filter too, dont do every other changes.
following the monitor leads to excessive sludge formation.
since this is a turbo engine, the semi synth BMW oil should be good for about 6000 miles before changing it. if he wants longer intervals, switch to german castrol and do a couple of 8000 mile UOAs to see how it holds up. change the filter too, dont do every other changes.
It should be noted that the test results are for a 330i, the normally-aspirated N52 engine with magnesium-composite block.
They are not from a 335i with the twin-turbo N54.
They are not from a 335i with the twin-turbo N54.
didnt even look at the external link, just the thread title.
7500 miles for BMW oil then, however, comparing the UOA to a VOA, the numbers dont match up, so i wont give a solid recommendation until the oil type can be confirmed.... but 7500 is still a good baseline.
could be a new formulation of the oil. calcium low, magnesium is high, so using it as a wear indicator isnt an option. GC did the same thing with the gold formulation, so i would assume the new BMW is the new Softec formulation... moly used to be 126ppm, what happened!?
7500 miles for BMW oil then, however, comparing the UOA to a VOA, the numbers dont match up, so i wont give a solid recommendation until the oil type can be confirmed.... but 7500 is still a good baseline.
could be a new formulation of the oil. calcium low, magnesium is high, so using it as a wear indicator isnt an option. GC did the same thing with the gold formulation, so i would assume the new BMW is the new Softec formulation... moly used to be 126ppm, what happened!?
Quote:
Quote:
Who's idea was it to go 19,000 miles on the factory fill?
Manufacturer's, of course. Poor owners are just following their manuals (and oil change lights on the dashboard). Can you blame them?
Are the people that buy these BMW's really that clueless? Looking at those wear numbers, it looks like that engine is toast, or at least in for a very short life.
Last edited:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Who's idea was it to go 19,000 miles on the factory fill?
Manufacturer's, of course. Poor owners are just following their manuals (and oil change lights on the dashboard). Can you blame them?
Are the people that buy these BMW's really that clueless? Looking at those wear numbers, it looks like that engine is toast, or at least in for a very short life.
1. Most people who buy *ANY* car are generally clueless about anal maintenance and what goes on under the pretty covers. Is it "clueless" to follow what the manual, salesman, and service advisor tell you to do? As far as the average consumer is concerned, cars are just getting better since they require less service than before.
2. Back to a point I've made before - who said they are WEAR numbers?? There's going to be assembly lube, left over #@$%! from machining, break-in metals (which I feel is unfair to lump in with true wear metal) etc...etc... in that oil. Come back with the UOA from the second OCI and then we can call it wear metal. Same thing goes for calling it "toast".
In one breath there's a BITOG camp preaching to us all that OCIs shorter than 20,000mi are a waste, Amsoil's so great, the rest of us are killing the planet blah blah blah.. Simultaneously another is calling people who actually do it clueless. Sheesh.
I know that Terry's analysis isn't supposed to be posted to forums, but I saw it anyways. Personally I'm a little disappointed that he has simply stated that everything is shot instead of clearly indicating that YES, the oil is toast and the metals are shockingly high but it's also the break-in oil so conclusions about the true condition of the engine cannot be made other than it is now thoroughly broken in.
If this was my friend I would have advised a short OCI with another analysis (including Terry). If there's a problem find it quickly, or set your mind at ease if wear metal is nil after the next 3k mi or similar. Of course I also would have told them not to even dream of leaving factory oil in for 19k mi in the first place, nor would I have even bothered to send the factory oil away for a UOA except for entertainment.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Who's idea was it to go 19,000 miles on the factory fill?
Manufacturer's, of course. Poor owners are just following their manuals (and oil change lights on the dashboard). Can you blame them?
Are the people that buy these BMW's really that clueless? Looking at those wear numbers, it looks like that engine is toast, or at least in for a very short life.
Is it "clueless" to follow what the manual, salesman, and service advisor tell you to do?
Common sense should always prevail over the Mfg's recommendation, service advisor, and most certainly a dealer salesman.
Followed the link in the original post to bimmerfest forum thread. Posts there by folks reminded me why I dont buy used cars. Once burnt twice shy. I swore I will buy new and maintain them well for a looooong time.
Common sense? Most people would expect that the manufacturer of the vehicle knows what they're talking about. Are you saying that it's common sense to ignore the manufacturer recommendations? You buy an expensive car and you're going to refuse to follow the manual??? Most people will follow it. It has nothing to do with common sense. It has to do with entrusting the maker that they built the car and they know what's good for it. Whether it is good for it (or for the company's bottom line) is another story, but again, most people will follow the manual rather than some Jiffy Lube greasmonkey. The manual, being written by the manufacturer, has higher credibility. It's really simple.
As for the actual recommendation, this type of OCI is quite common in Europe nowadays (20k miles or 2 years, whichever comes first). With good oil and easy driving conditions, it may be OK. And I agree with others, this specific UOA doesn't tell us much as we're dealing with break-in conditions here. Having spent many years on BITOG, I would probabaly not wait that long with changing the break-in oil myself, but all in all, if a typical person doesn't keep a new car for more than a few years and no more than 100k miles, I don't think they will experience any catastrophic engine failure during that period.
Alright, let me ask you this: if YOU were to go out and buy a new BMW today, how long would YOU keep the factory fill in for?
This whole thread is proof that higher education and common sense don't go hand in hand.
This is ignorance. Manufacturer doesnt provide maintenance schedule beyond 120k in most manuals. Ever try to think why?
BTW, Jiffy Lube greaseM comment is offensive. I am glad that one jiffy lube guy recommended and did carbon deposit cleaning and fuel injection cleaning. It did work wonders on my previous car. Neither dealer nor manufacturer ever talked about it. So, no fuel injector cleaning is required no matter what the mileage is?
I already answered it in my previous response:
If you educate yourself about modern oils and technological advancements, you'll probably learn that 3k OCI is a thing of the past. Mobil and Amsoil tout 20K OCIs. Why would you not accept it if your owner's manual and service advisor say the same thing?
What is the common sense regarding break-in oil? IMO, there's no such thing. The opinions are split. Many will argue to dump break-in oil ASAP. And just as many will say it's not necessary. Is there proof that one way is better than the other? As I said, this particular UOA proves nothing in terms of this engine's ability to last 100K miles or not.
y'all need to calm down and consider 2 things:
1: the OCI/sump capacity of that engine is the same as running 12K miles on a 5qt sump, so it really isnt that bad.
2: this was the break in oil, that should have been changed at 3K miles, and that is really the only problem here.
if this was the second oil change with 19K miles on the oil, the numbers would look a LOT better. sure its still too long if you want the engine to play nice for the next couple of years, but the manufacturer wants to cut the total cost of ownership way down to make the price of the vehichle more appealing, and also they do NOT want the engine to last 100000 miles past its warranty period, or they would not sell as many cars.
1: the OCI/sump capacity of that engine is the same as running 12K miles on a 5qt sump, so it really isnt that bad.
2: this was the break in oil, that should have been changed at 3K miles, and that is really the only problem here.
if this was the second oil change with 19K miles on the oil, the numbers would look a LOT better. sure its still too long if you want the engine to play nice for the next couple of years, but the manufacturer wants to cut the total cost of ownership way down to make the price of the vehichle more appealing, and also they do NOT want the engine to last 100000 miles past its warranty period, or they would not sell as many cars.
No...but now that I have, it's obvious the oil was in a lot worst shape than it first appeared.
I guess the more important question is if all BMWs that have these 20,000 mile factory fill recommendations show equally bad UOAs? Maybe this engine is defective in some way that led to such a condition?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked