Can someone tell me in a nutshell the difference between the blue filters and the white ones. I bought 2 white ones and was wondering if they were any good?
Blue vs White Purolater
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The blue ones are PureOne, and filter very small particles. White ones are Premium Plus and don't filter as well, but supposedly flow better. There is some question as to whether any filters actually restrict flow, since oil pumps are positive displacement.
I have no idea.
I have no idea.
BITOG'ers generally have high regard for all Purolator filters, whether they are PureOne or Premium Plus (white). I use Motorcraft on my Fords and either Purolator on everything else.
They both have very good filter media and they generally have more filter media than competing brands. The Blue Pure Ones have partially synthetic media which is supposed to allow it to filter finer particles.
Thanks for the replies. That clears that up.
I think that I would rather have the better flow than the better filtering but who really knows.
Thanks Again.
Dave
I think that I would rather have the better flow than the better filtering but who really knows.
Thanks Again.
Dave
I am always afraid that a more restrictive filter will lead to a premature bypass. Doesn't matter how fine a filter is, once it by-passes, up goes all the dirt...
I hope Gary Allan's by pass test will clear this up for us all
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002312
I am not so sure that all the dirt washes off an oil filter so quickly. Ever try to blow the dirt off your air filter?
One more thing. The finer filter/less flow thing is not so simple.
1. I am not so sure that a filter ever gets loaded enough to affect PSID significantly.
2. I do not think a filter goes in bypass unless you are starting up a car in freezing weather. Even then it is only for a very short time (30 sec).
So if that is true, finer filter (Pure One) is the way to go.
Winston
The oil in the "dirty" side of the filter is significantly dirtier than the clean side. It's not just the stuff trapped in the paper.
The oil in the pan is also much dirtier than the oil just after the filter.
Bypass is just to prevent damage to the filter and to prevent oil starvation to the motor...the less the better.
It's gonna happen, but happenin less is bess...
For me, flow ranks higher, I don't leave the oil in long enough to get toooo dirty.
The oil in the "dirty" side of the filter is significantly dirtier than the clean side. It's not just the stuff trapped in the paper.
The oil in the pan is also much dirtier than the oil just after the filter.
Bypass is just to prevent damage to the filter and to prevent oil starvation to the motor...the less the better.
It's gonna happen, but happenin less is bess...
For me, flow ranks higher, I don't leave the oil in long enough to get toooo dirty.
I've often wondered--assuming that my air filtering arrangement is effective--where does this "dirt" in my possibly "dirty" oil come from? How much of this "dirt" gets past the oil filter? Does the "dirt" that manages to somehow sneak into the engine and sneak past the oil filter actually cause any measurable or significant damage. If it does...at what rate?
It's not just "dirt" that comes in from the outside...
IC engines create carbon/soot just by burning fuel. Some engines burn "dirtier" than others.
Some fuels burn "dirtier" than others too.
IC engines create carbon/soot just by burning fuel. Some engines burn "dirtier" than others.
Some fuels burn "dirtier" than others too.
In addition to fuel combustion byproducts, there are also oil and additive oxidation and acid reaction products that fall out as particulates. The interior of a running internal combustion engine is not a nice place.
Hmmm. What kind of particulates? Cigarette smoke is particulates, but I couldn't see the particles being particularly troublesome (childrens' lungs excepted, of course). Do these particles cling together and become granules or globules? Would they be able to score the cylinder walls or crankshaft journals or camshaft lobes? Any rigorous but not-too-technical references on the web?
When I am "running down the road" at 2000 RPM my oil is being filtered 5.6 times a minute (7 gallons a minute with a 5 quart sump). I doubt that is much difference in the quality of the oil anywhere in the engine.quote:
Originally posted by ZR2RANDO:
Winston
The oil in the "dirty" side of the filter is significantly dirtier than the clean side. It's not just the stuff trapped in the paper.
The oil in the pan is also much dirtier than the oil just after the filter.
Bypass is just to prevent damage to the filter and to prevent oil starvation to the motor...the less the better.
It's gonna happen, but happenin less is bess...
For me, flow ranks higher, I don't leave the oil in long enough to get toooo dirty.
Ugly3,
"I doubt that is much difference in the quality of the oil anywhere in the engine"
Read up on basic filtration 101 sometime. The "dirty" side is called the "dirty side for a reason. If a filter didn't do any filtration, what would be the purpose of using a filter? It's easy enough to see how air filters, and water filters work...oil filters work too (yes, some filter out smaller particles than others).
"I doubt that is much difference in the quality of the oil anywhere in the engine"
Read up on basic filtration 101 sometime. The "dirty" side is called the "dirty side for a reason. If a filter didn't do any filtration, what would be the purpose of using a filter? It's easy enough to see how air filters, and water filters work...oil filters work too (yes, some filter out smaller particles than others).
Ugly3,
It's cumulative; the engine is burning fuel and creating soot. Cold engines don’t burn fuel the same way that warmed up engines do either. The oil is gradually degrading with time and use. Each pass the oil makes through the engine may not be a significant individual thing, but it adds up after a few thousand miles, or several hours of operation.
I have water filters on the water line coming into my house from my well for example, it takes a few months but they do gradually get dirty, and once they start getting dirty, they get dirtier quicker, same thing with the air filter in my house, filters get more efficient with use, it’s just a gradual thing.
3000 miles may not be a big deal for most filters, but 5,6, or 10000 miles can be a different situation.
It's cumulative; the engine is burning fuel and creating soot. Cold engines don’t burn fuel the same way that warmed up engines do either. The oil is gradually degrading with time and use. Each pass the oil makes through the engine may not be a significant individual thing, but it adds up after a few thousand miles, or several hours of operation.
I have water filters on the water line coming into my house from my well for example, it takes a few months but they do gradually get dirty, and once they start getting dirty, they get dirtier quicker, same thing with the air filter in my house, filters get more efficient with use, it’s just a gradual thing.
3000 miles may not be a big deal for most filters, but 5,6, or 10000 miles can be a different situation.
So, to me there are two issues here.
1. How much crud actually washes off the filter when the bypass is open.
2. How long that crud remains flowing through the engine before it gets filtered out again.
I do not think much would wash off the filter. However, even if it did wash off the filter, it would be filtered out again in a few minutes once the filter went off bypass.
I really believe most of those small particles would remain embedded in the filter media. Where is Pete C. when you need him.
BTW, sorry if the tone of my last post was disrespectful.
1. How much crud actually washes off the filter when the bypass is open.
2. How long that crud remains flowing through the engine before it gets filtered out again.
I do not think much would wash off the filter. However, even if it did wash off the filter, it would be filtered out again in a few minutes once the filter went off bypass.
I really believe most of those small particles would remain embedded in the filter media. Where is Pete C. when you need him.
BTW, sorry if the tone of my last post was disrespectful.
If you took a used oil filter and were able to remove it without spilling the oil (this is pretty much impossible for most of us I think..) and took 2 samples, one from the inner section, and one from the outer section, you could test each and compare them. You could centrifuge the samples and get a visual comparison, or just do whatever other test you had available. That filter only has one job to do- keep the dirty stuff on the outside, and that’s about it. When the oil filter bypasses, it probably doesn’t get much crud physically off the dirty side of the media, but it will get some (more if that bypass is on the closed end of the filter),plus that dirty oil from that outside section as well. I agree, if some slug of dirty oil goes through that bypass, hopefully it just has one pass before it hits the filter again.
As far as being disrespectful? I pretty much feel like a pincushion on here, but that’s ok.
Just call me Rodney Dangerfield, if I got any respect, I wouldn’t know what to do with it.
As far as being disrespectful? I pretty much feel like a pincushion on here, but that’s ok.
Just call me Rodney Dangerfield, if I got any respect, I wouldn’t know what to do with it.
I'm sorry, I can't follow your logic. If the oil contamination is a continous process (and I agree with that) then the oil on both sides of the filter would be about the same because the only difference is 1 pass 10 seconds ago through the filter. The oil is flowing one way and taking a sample from each side of the filter is of no value in this instance.
Your water filter example is not applicable because the input side is being fed with non filtered water, not water that just came from the filter.
Let's face it, the oil is being filtered throught he full flow filter every 10 seconds. The oil in the sump came from the filter a few seconds ago and is seconds from going through the filter again. All of the oil in the engine is within a "hair" of the same cleanliness level.
Gary Allen has reasonably demonstrated that oil filters are in bypass mode at cold start up for a short time. After the engine is warm it is almost impossible to get into bypass until the filter media is plugged. This was the case with 5w20, 15w40, and 20w50 weight oils. I was initially surprised at Gary's results, however, I think I underestimated the impact of temperature on viscosity. The information below is a decent summary.
An oil pump in a 3800 V6 (typical) produces a flow of 3.5 gallons per minute per 1,000 RPM. The typical engine reaches maximum oil pressure at 3,000 RPM or less (some as low as 1,800 RPM), RPMs higher than 3,000 produce no additional flow through the oil filter because the added flow is relieved by the relief valve in the oil pump and returned to the sump. Bottom line, the maximum flow of oil through the typical engine is in the area of 10 gallons per minute.
Per the Mercruiser study the flow rate for the most restrictive filter is 1.1 gallons per minute at 10 PSI and 70F. The temperature and viscosity chart suggests a factor of 10x by raising the temp from 70F to 200F. This suggests an 11 gallon per minute flow at 10 PSI and 200F. Increasing the oil pressure to 20# increases the flow rate by a little more than double in the Mercruiser study. The 11 gallon per minute flow rate now increases to ~22 gallons per minute at 200F and 20# of oil pressure.
This suggests a filter flow rate of ~44 gallons per minute at 40 PSI and 200F for a new filter. Assuming a filter gets “plugged” 75% with debris it will still handle a flow of ~11 gallons per minute at 40 PSI and 200F.
A 10 gallon per minute oil flow rate suggests that with a 5 quart capacity the oil is being circulated through the filter 8 times a minute. Even if the filter went into bypass mode for 50% of the flow we are still getting all the oil filtered 4 times a minute. Not a bad bypass filter!
Ugly3,
My example of the water filter was of course not a recirculating system like an IC engine is, I just used it as an example of a filter loading up faster as it got dirtier. The household air filter was a better example. My point was that the stuff that gets filtered out of the oil is being generated in that engine itself, some comes from outside, but most is just due to burning the fuel in the engine itself. It is a gradual process, but it does happen.
If you don’t believe that the filter is dirtier on the incoming side than it is on the exit side, then you don’t have much of a reason to use a filter on your vehicles. Pretty much any filter (or no filter at all) should be good enough for you.
I know how bypasses work too by the way. Under normal driving conditions they probably don’t come into use very much….Gary probably doesn’t drive like a maniac so he doesn’t see much activity with it….But let his teenager drive it for while (I don’t know if he has a teenager, just pointing out different driving styles..). That crank and go, no warmup, always have to pass whoever is in front of them, jackrabbit starts at red lights, red line shifting,..(got to impress the girls you know…), high compression decelerations..etc,etc stuff will have a different effect on the motor.
We don’t have to agree on this stuff, as for this detail it seems we don’t. That’s what we are here for huh?
My example of the water filter was of course not a recirculating system like an IC engine is, I just used it as an example of a filter loading up faster as it got dirtier. The household air filter was a better example. My point was that the stuff that gets filtered out of the oil is being generated in that engine itself, some comes from outside, but most is just due to burning the fuel in the engine itself. It is a gradual process, but it does happen.
If you don’t believe that the filter is dirtier on the incoming side than it is on the exit side, then you don’t have much of a reason to use a filter on your vehicles. Pretty much any filter (or no filter at all) should be good enough for you.
I know how bypasses work too by the way. Under normal driving conditions they probably don’t come into use very much….Gary probably doesn’t drive like a maniac so he doesn’t see much activity with it….But let his teenager drive it for while (I don’t know if he has a teenager, just pointing out different driving styles..). That crank and go, no warmup, always have to pass whoever is in front of them, jackrabbit starts at red lights, red line shifting,..(got to impress the girls you know…), high compression decelerations..etc,etc stuff will have a different effect on the motor.
We don’t have to agree on this stuff, as for this detail it seems we don’t. That’s what we are here for huh?
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