Blizzak WS70 - Below Tube Multicell Compound

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I've been looking for wheels for our cars for winter tires and was able to pick up a set of wheels with mounted Blizzak WS70 on them for our Saturn SL2. A number of times I've seen that the multicell compound is only on the first 50% - 60% of the tire, which would be basically until 6/32nds and then they'd be less effective in snow (though I would think you'd want to change out snows around this level anyway). What I'm wondering is how these tires behave versus regular all seasons once the multicell compound is gone? Do they vitrually become an all season or is the rubber still softer than a typical all season? I'm wondering if I should have any major concern (performance wise) once at 6/32nds running them thru summer? 80 to 90 degrees Farheneit here in the summer, tires in question are 185/65/15 88T. Car could see up to 100 miles daily and could see a couple of 3+ hour trips each way during the summer.
 
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I believe the underlying compound is described by Bridgestone as a regular winter compound... some believe it is the same rubber as the multicell, without the air bubbles injected... As for running them in summer, they'll be fine, except for... wear and handling. The multicell compound is very soft and flexible, and wears quickly on hot dry pavement, and is squirmy due to tread block flex and soft rubber. Once worn, the tire becomes somewhat less squirmy, as the multicell is gone, the underlying rubber is a little firmer, and the tread depth is much shallower. They will still wear " faster..." as the rubber is softer than an all season. The tire will not handle as well as an all season in summer. It won't stop as quick, or corner with as much grip or stability. But driven reasonably, the tire will still work. Where I live, many, many folks run the winters until well worn, then leave them on for the next summer , getting max mileage out of them.
 
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I would just add a bit more air to ensure they are a bit firmer if used in summer. They will wear faster and slight drop in mpg. Other than that they will work fine
 
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The biggest shortcoming, compared to an all-season, will be longer wet braking distances and higher susceptibility to hydroplaning.
 
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I have a set of WS70s that are getting towards the the end of their life. They still work very well in the winter though. I would advise against running them in the summer. The compound is really designed to work below 45° therefore they run really hot in the summer. The rubber compound along with all the siping and tread design with cause a very fast rate of wear. They just are not designed for that type of use.
 
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Slamming on the brakes on a hot Summer day with Winter tires on could prevent you from stopping. Your ABS would go berserk and you will loose your ability to stop. Winter compound of any sort is too soft on a blazing hot day. Very dangerous.
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Slamming on the brakes on a hot Summer day with Winter tires on could prevent you from stopping. Your ABS would go berserk and you will loose your ability to stop. Winter compound of any sort is too soft on a blazing hot day. Very dangerous.
Have you tried H or V rated performance winters? I do not recall anything bad happening when I was wearing off my Continental TS810 during summer months. Tread squirm was hard to detect as they were below 4/32. Krzys PS Summer was dry, if it were wet I would have put my new summers on.
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Slamming on the brakes on a hot Summer day with Winter tires on could prevent you from stopping. Your ABS would go berserk and you will loose your ability to stop. Winter compound of any sort is too soft on a blazing hot day. Very dangerous.
Have you EVER driven a winter tire in the summer... I doubt it, because what you said is complete nonsense. The tire will not handle as well as an all season in the summer, but is certainly not dangerous... Check out his article from Road and Track... winter tires run hard on a racetrack, just to see what would happen... ! Nothing bad happened... http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/winter-tires-track-tested
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Slamming on the brakes on a hot Summer day with Winter tires on could prevent you from stopping. Your ABS would go berserk and you will loose your ability to stop. Winter compound of any sort is too soft on a blazing hot day. Very dangerous.
that isn't real life too much exaggeration. I'd take 3/4 worn blizzacks in the summer over plastic chinese tires. is it the best option no. and yes I've run out winter tires many times in the summer. a set of goodyear ultragrip, and dunlop m3 sports most recently.
 
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Around here, the General Altimax Arctic is almost a default all season... lots of drivers run them year round...! And their ABS seems to work fine...
 
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Originally Posted By: geeman789
[quote=Falken]…………..Check out his article from Road and Track... winter tires run hard on a racetrack, just to see what would happen... ! http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/winter-tires-track-tested
That R&T "test" left a lot to be desired. What did we learn from it? Only that a Dunlop Wintersport performance winter had a best lap time 2.2 sec slower than an GY Eagle F1 summer tire. I don't see it being relevant to a discussion of the WS70. Even when it was brand new, with full tread depth, the WS70 (and its premium peers) has poor wet braking and hydroplaning resistance compared to a premium all season. When you wear down the WS70 to half tread depth, those poor wet performance attributes become even worse. Personally, I would feel comfortable wearing out a set of performance winters over the spring and summer, but not a set of studless winter tires, especially if I expect to drive in rain.
 
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I have driven Winter tires in the Summer. I lived in Calgary for a few years when I got a set of Michelin X-Ice (first gen). I thought it was a great idea to use them year round as I didn't travel far to work when I moved back to Montreal. My father told me it was a stupid idea, but I had a small place at the time and didn't want the hassle of an extra set of tires. I was driving home from a hunting store on St-Laurent and was taking the 40 westbound back. I was going along at around 100km and hour, and the traffic ahead of me abruptly stopped. I always leave a lot of room ahead of me, but my nerves weren't accustomed to that "sudden" of a stop when you are used to just coasting to a gradual stop on highways. Well, I hit the brakes, and I slid like I was on hot grease. I tapped the bumper of the person ahead of me, and she took my name but later confirmed there was no damage to the bumper that wasn't "visible". Since then I like to use Winter tires as little as possible in warmer months. But, I guess I could be wrong about the compound and it is ok for year round use, YMMV so to speak.
 
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http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1211_rubber_matter_tires_test/?__federated=1 "………..Several months later and with dry pavement undertire, we ran the same [braking] test, but this time from 70 mph. …………. The PZero summer tires record the shortest distance at 149 feet, and the winter tires [Blizzak DM-V1] need the most room to stop -- an extra 56 feet. The all-season Continentals are no slouch at 167 feet, but there's no question that they're compromised…………………….. The right tire for the conditions has serious implications for braking distance….."
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Here is a Montreal article about the effect of Winter compound when it gets hot out: http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Winter+tires+dangerous+warmer+weather/9809396/story.html
A pretty good article, but they do not mention which winter tire they tested, other than it being a Michelin. This pretty much sums it up: "……………..And, even worse, some motorists decide to keep their winter tires on as temperatures rise. That is "as dangerous as using summer tires in winter," Carl Nadeau, a race car driver and instructor with 20 years of experience, said last week during a demonstration by Michelin. "The rubber compound gets so soft because it is meant to stay soft when it is cold. In warmer weather, it is not designed to cope so the rubber gets so soft that it pretty much disintegrates in some situations," he said. When it is a lot warmer, like 30 degrees, the rubber will marble — which will cause it to form balls and roll under the [tire]. "That is very dangerous," Nadeau said…………………."
 
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I suspect it is true with lower speed rated winter tires like Q and R. I bet H and V tires will handle warm and even hot temperature better but proper tires for conditions will always beat improper ones. Krzys
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
Here is a Montreal article about the effect of Winter compound when it gets hot out: http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Winter+tires+dangerous+warmer+weather/9809396/story.html
There is always a better gripping tire in any given condition, look at how many different tires a WRC rally car will use in a season, or even in one race. Its an expensive exercise to always be on the best tires. In my experience running winter tires year round, the cheaper studdable tires do get quite slick on wet road as they age, especially on old limestone pavement, but they are pretty much the same as cheaper all-season tires that have aged as well. The 6 year old(but unused) Michelin X-ice I put on the Tracker this spring have performed quite well this summer though, with good wet traction, and have done well for some mild off roading. They are reasonably quiet and have noticeably sharper handling response on pavement than any of the cheapish all-seasons I've had on it. Also I've found my yoko ig52c's better in almost every measure than the cooper starfire all-seasons on the Focus. Perhaps not dry grip, but they ig52c's are much better in the wet which is more important IMO. If the yoko's maintain their grip advantage over cheap all-seasons, I will run them for a summer or two as well at the end of their life.
 
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Originally Posted By: krzyss
I suspect it is true with lower speed rated winter tires like Q and R. I bet H and V tires will handle warm and even hot temperature better but proper tires for conditions will always beat improper ones. Krzys
In this 2010 Auto Bild test: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm A Dunlop 3D performed similarly to a Vredestein AS tire in a "warm weather" performance test, and about 10% behind the summer tire. But a crucial piece of information is lacking, namely the actual temperature during testing.
 
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