I have read several comments in the past about weird (politically correct) Blackstone lab results. Is the comfort level back in their analysis reports? Just wondering. Ed
Blackstone results-comfort level?
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Blackstone results are fine. Sometimes I question things they say in their interpretations...but, the values are fine.
Hi,
like Titan i think the Blackstone results are quite credible
I sometimes have serious doubts about the individual operator's comments as they are sometimes totally misleading and at worst totally wrong! At times they are obviously the words of in-experience!!
like Titan i think the Blackstone results are quite credible
I sometimes have serious doubts about the individual operator's comments as they are sometimes totally misleading and at worst totally wrong! At times they are obviously the words of in-experience!!
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I am very comfortable with Blackstone. I have called them several times for some clarifications. They are very professional, service oriented. In addition when you talk to either the technicians, or clerical people..they are very people friendly.
Can't say enough good about them.
I would hope they soon start giving BITOG members a discount. BTW they do have a significant discount for the purchase of 6 samples.
Can't say enough good about them.
I would hope they soon start giving BITOG members a discount. BTW they do have a significant discount for the purchase of 6 samples.
Originally Posted By: Titan
Blackstone results are fine. Sometimes I question things they say in their interpretations...but, the values are fine.
I agree, service is great, comments are sometimes a little out of the ordinary.
Blackstone results are fine. Sometimes I question things they say in their interpretations...but, the values are fine.
I agree, service is great, comments are sometimes a little out of the ordinary.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I have read several comments in the past about weird (politically correct) Blackstone lab results. Is the comfort level back in their analysis reports? Just wondering. Ed
Recent wear metals seem reasonable. Additive levels seem to be cyclical, IOW they cycle from low to nominal.
Comments? For entertainment purposes only.
I have read several comments in the past about weird (politically correct) Blackstone lab results. Is the comfort level back in their analysis reports? Just wondering. Ed
Recent wear metals seem reasonable. Additive levels seem to be cyclical, IOW they cycle from low to nominal.
Comments? For entertainment purposes only.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: glennc
There was a recent UOA sent to Blackstone and another lab and the results came back very similar. A few wear metals were off but within a reasonable margin of error IIRC.
The one thing I always think about when someone sends two samples to two different labs, is if those two samples would still show different results if done by the same lab. In other words, when you're taking two samples, you're obviously gathering that oil from different two different points in the draining process and do we know for sure that the wear metals would always be distributed evenly throughout the entire draining process. My thoughts is that they won't be. So when you get two different results from two different labs, it might not be the labs that are different, but the actual samples themselves that are different, even though they were from the same OCI.
Am I making sense?
There was a recent UOA sent to Blackstone and another lab and the results came back very similar. A few wear metals were off but within a reasonable margin of error IIRC.
The one thing I always think about when someone sends two samples to two different labs, is if those two samples would still show different results if done by the same lab. In other words, when you're taking two samples, you're obviously gathering that oil from different two different points in the draining process and do we know for sure that the wear metals would always be distributed evenly throughout the entire draining process. My thoughts is that they won't be. So when you get two different results from two different labs, it might not be the labs that are different, but the actual samples themselves that are different, even though they were from the same OCI.
Am I making sense?
Perfectly clear.
When I did my 4 lab comparo, I took a big sample in a sterile quart jar, cranked the lid on that pup. Finished the earl change, then later shook the heck out of the jar and poured samples in each lab sample container.
When I did my 4 lab comparo, I took a big sample in a sterile quart jar, cranked the lid on that pup. Finished the earl change, then later shook the heck out of the jar and poured samples in each lab sample container.
Pablo: Could you point me to the 4 lab test results. Ed
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Pablo: Could you point me to the 4 lab test results. Ed
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html
Pablo: Could you point me to the 4 lab test results. Ed
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html
Results will depend on the type of equipment used in the analysis.
An Inductively Coupled Plasma (ICP) spectrometer will have an upper particle size detection limit of between .5 and 2 microns, and an instrument accuracy of .1 ppm. However, an ICP spectrometer requires the sample to be diluted and prepared prior to analysis. This can introduce sample to sample error much greater than the instrument accuracy.
A Rotating Disk Emission Spectrometer (Rotrode) will have an upper particle size detection limit of between 3 and 10 microns, and a measurement accuracy of 1 to 2 ppm. However, no dilution is required for a Rotrode analysis.
Differences between labs can occur for ICP in the preparation and calibration of the samples. Rotrode analysis does not have this problem, and will have fairly high repeatability between samples. But, Rotrode has lower accuracy.
Finally, since the upper particle size detection limit is higher for Rotrode analysis, reported ppm levels will generally be higher than ICP measurements, since particles of larger size are included. This will often explain the difference in a Blackstone and a Dyson analysis, since Blackstone uses ICP and Dyson uses a Rotrode lab.
An Inductively Coupled Plasma (ICP) spectrometer will have an upper particle size detection limit of between .5 and 2 microns, and an instrument accuracy of .1 ppm. However, an ICP spectrometer requires the sample to be diluted and prepared prior to analysis. This can introduce sample to sample error much greater than the instrument accuracy.
A Rotating Disk Emission Spectrometer (Rotrode) will have an upper particle size detection limit of between 3 and 10 microns, and a measurement accuracy of 1 to 2 ppm. However, no dilution is required for a Rotrode analysis.
Differences between labs can occur for ICP in the preparation and calibration of the samples. Rotrode analysis does not have this problem, and will have fairly high repeatability between samples. But, Rotrode has lower accuracy.
Finally, since the upper particle size detection limit is higher for Rotrode analysis, reported ppm levels will generally be higher than ICP measurements, since particles of larger size are included. This will often explain the difference in a Blackstone and a Dyson analysis, since Blackstone uses ICP and Dyson uses a Rotrode lab.
Thanks pablo.
Blackstone seems to report lower fuel dilution than Dyson Analysis, my Prius has about 1.7 % Fuel dilution accorrding to Dyson, which was showing as less than 0.5 % at Blackstone.
I don't like being critical, but as a consumer, I still feel it necessary to be honest in reporting my experience. Despite their politely worded analysis, Blackstone gave me an analysis that ended up causing me tremendous embarrassment with Honda. Before I get to that, there was a young guy I phoned at Blackstone that I sensed was not truly concerned and condescending.
Back to the subject. Basically, Blackstone reported a supposed issue to me regarding my new bike. I complained strongly to the dealership about it and they resisted me so I continued to bug them about it. I later found out from Terry Dyson that my test results were totally normal for a NEW motorcycle and it appears Blackstone did not know this.
I confirmed Terry's analysis by finding out that other people with new bikes are getting the same test results I did and they're testing facilities are informing them their results are normal.
I do appreciate the analysts polite wording. But I'd honestly rather have a rude correct analysis then a polite false one that sends me on an blood boiling goose chase with Honda and pretty near killed me with worry.
Back to the subject. Basically, Blackstone reported a supposed issue to me regarding my new bike. I complained strongly to the dealership about it and they resisted me so I continued to bug them about it. I later found out from Terry Dyson that my test results were totally normal for a NEW motorcycle and it appears Blackstone did not know this.
I confirmed Terry's analysis by finding out that other people with new bikes are getting the same test results I did and they're testing facilities are informing them their results are normal.
I do appreciate the analysts polite wording. But I'd honestly rather have a rude correct analysis then a polite false one that sends me on an blood boiling goose chase with Honda and pretty near killed me with worry.
This is an old thread, but relevant for me...Can anyone confirm the difference(s) between the Blackstone and Oil Analyzers sample pumps ? (links below) The Blackstone website claims theirs doesn't need cleaning, but the Oil Analyzers website says theirs does...It seems the "non-cleaning" pump would be much better and Amsoil would sell it too, but maybe there's some catch.
Blackstone: "The oil never touches the pump, so you don't need to clean it in between uses."
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/pump.html
Oil Analyzers: "Thoroughly clean the pump, probe needle and mini-gauge plug surface after each use."
http://www.oaitesting.com/oil_analysis_pump.htm
Blackstone: "The oil never touches the pump, so you don't need to clean it in between uses."
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/pump.html
Oil Analyzers: "Thoroughly clean the pump, probe needle and mini-gauge plug surface after each use."
http://www.oaitesting.com/oil_analysis_pump.htm
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