I was just thinking about these and wanted to know if anyone knew exactly what they record. For instance if you drive a car hard and the transmission starts slipping can they void a warranty based on how the car was driven? Do they record if you redline an engine ect.
Black box recorder
- Thread starter swirlparanoid
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It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, of course. We'll probably never know since that's a trade secret for each car company. Some have been very forthcoming, such as Nissan (in regards to the GT-R), and said "we can see how many times you use launch control".
OBD2 stuff is sophisticated enough that if you blow the motor, it's going to record the engine speed, throttle angle, and all the sensor data at the moment of explosion. The dealer can see if you missed a shift.
They won't use it to void a warranty, they'll just deny a claim you try to make.
OBD2 stuff is sophisticated enough that if you blow the motor, it's going to record the engine speed, throttle angle, and all the sensor data at the moment of explosion. The dealer can see if you missed a shift.
They won't use it to void a warranty, they'll just deny a claim you try to make.
I just want to know when ALL available data will be made available to me so that I can data mine my own car.
I mean really. We have had computers in cars for what? 20 years now?
When can I download it and examine it myself?
Shouldn't be that difficult.
I mean really. We have had computers in cars for what? 20 years now?
When can I download it and examine it myself?
Shouldn't be that difficult.
Progressive Insurance has that gizmo that you plug in and it monitors your every move.
If you want to be spyed on, get it from Progressive..
If you are like me, tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine..
BTW, I've read that Progressive is "disappointed that more drivers are not using their gizmo. Not many using it. I guess there are still some smart people around that don't want to be monitored.
If you want to be spyed on, get it from Progressive..
If you are like me, tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine..
BTW, I've read that Progressive is "disappointed that more drivers are not using their gizmo. Not many using it. I guess there are still some smart people around that don't want to be monitored.
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I just want to know when ALL available data will be made available to me so that I can data mine my own car.
I mean really. We have had computers in cars for what? 20 years now?
When can I download it and examine it myself?
Shouldn't be that difficult.
It isn't difficult. Plug in one of those OBD2-USB cables and you can view all the bus & sensor data and dump to CSV for further analysis. There is a crazy amount of data available.
I just want to know when ALL available data will be made available to me so that I can data mine my own car.
I mean really. We have had computers in cars for what? 20 years now?
When can I download it and examine it myself?
Shouldn't be that difficult.
It isn't difficult. Plug in one of those OBD2-USB cables and you can view all the bus & sensor data and dump to CSV for further analysis. There is a crazy amount of data available.
Originally Posted By: dparm
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dparm
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
There are many drivers who simply drive around the speed limit and quite safely. They deserve to be rewarded and Progressive/State Farm have running proof or potential data to correlate with these beta devices. Personally I think they are gathering data and giving you a discount for information more than the actual driving habits.
Originally Posted By: dparm
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
There are many drivers who simply drive around the speed limit and quite safely. They deserve to be rewarded and Progressive/State Farm have running proof or potential data to correlate with these beta devices. Personally I think they are gathering data and giving you a discount for information more than the actual driving habits.
They just record crash data now, but just you wait and see what goes on after 2016.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dparm
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
There are many drivers who simply drive around the speed limit and quite safely. They deserve to be rewarded and Progressive/State Farm have running proof or potential data to correlate with these beta devices. Personally I think they are gathering data and giving you a discount for information more than the actual driving habits.
It could be very well be just that. I have a clean license and I'm rewarded by having lower rates, in fact lower than Progressive and State Farm in my area. So I see no need to plug in and have them spy on me. By the same token, if I had tickets and accidents it would show up when they run my DL. Now for people who want to plug in, I say go for it, thank God we still have a choice. Time will tell if all the Insurance Companies hop on board with these plug in devices.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dparm
State Farm has the same plug-in module too. No thanks.
State Farm too? Wow, that's two insurance companies that can stick it.
There are many drivers who simply drive around the speed limit and quite safely. They deserve to be rewarded and Progressive/State Farm have running proof or potential data to correlate with these beta devices. Personally I think they are gathering data and giving you a discount for information more than the actual driving habits.
It could be very well be just that. I have a clean license and I'm rewarded by having lower rates, in fact lower than Progressive and State Farm in my area. So I see no need to plug in and have them spy on me. By the same token, if I had tickets and accidents it would show up when they run my DL. Now for people who want to plug in, I say go for it, thank God we still have a choice. Time will tell if all the Insurance Companies hop on board with these plug in devices.
I don't think these will ever be required. I can see them being struck down on Constitutional grounds: unlawful search/seizure and/or right against self-incrimination.
Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
Progressive Insurance has that gizmo that you plug in and it monitors your every move.
If you want to be spyed on, get it from Progressive..
If you are like me, tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine..
BTW, I've read that Progressive is "disappointed that more drivers are not using their gizmo. Not many using it. I guess there are still some smart people around that don't want to be monitored.
I'm a progressive customer. I had very good rates. I used the "snap Shot" on my Lincoln, and my rates went down an additional 30%. It's an optional program. Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. People complain about privacy with this, but at the same time have zero issue giving 3 times as much data thru their smart phone.
Progressive Insurance has that gizmo that you plug in and it monitors your every move.
If you want to be spyed on, get it from Progressive..
If you are like me, tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine..
BTW, I've read that Progressive is "disappointed that more drivers are not using their gizmo. Not many using it. I guess there are still some smart people around that don't want to be monitored.
I'm a progressive customer. I had very good rates. I used the "snap Shot" on my Lincoln, and my rates went down an additional 30%. It's an optional program. Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. People complain about privacy with this, but at the same time have zero issue giving 3 times as much data thru their smart phone.
Originally Posted By: dparm
I don't think these will ever be required. I can see them being struck down on Constitutional grounds: unlawful search/seizure and/or right against self-incrimination.
Hopefully. Though I can also see the "driving is a privilege, not a right" mantra being invoked.
I don't think these will ever be required. I can see them being struck down on Constitutional grounds: unlawful search/seizure and/or right against self-incrimination.
Hopefully. Though I can also see the "driving is a privilege, not a right" mantra being invoked.
Originally Posted By: swirlparanoid
I was just thinking about these and wanted to know if anyone knew exactly what they record. For instance if you drive a car hard and the transmission starts slipping can they void a warranty based on how the car was driven? Do they record if you redline an engine ect.
Several years ago one of BMW NA's M managers told me about a 5 speed E36 M3 that had been flat-bedded into a dealership. The car's owner said he was simply driving down the interstate at 65 mph when the car "just died". Unfortunately for the owner(and his wallet), the DME had recorded a final engine speed of over 9000 rpm- a true "money shift". The owner's previous car was an Oldsmobile, BTW...
I was just thinking about these and wanted to know if anyone knew exactly what they record. For instance if you drive a car hard and the transmission starts slipping can they void a warranty based on how the car was driven? Do they record if you redline an engine ect.
Several years ago one of BMW NA's M managers told me about a 5 speed E36 M3 that had been flat-bedded into a dealership. The car's owner said he was simply driving down the interstate at 65 mph when the car "just died". Unfortunately for the owner(and his wallet), the DME had recorded a final engine speed of over 9000 rpm- a true "money shift". The owner's previous car was an Oldsmobile, BTW...
Maybe BMW should have spent time developing a rev limiter instead of recording what the revs were.
Oldsmobile had a circuit in the Aurora to prevent a running car from having the starter engaged; a common sense engineering move.
Oldsmobile had a circuit in the Aurora to prevent a running car from having the starter engaged; a common sense engineering move.
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Maybe BMW should have spent time developing a rev limiter instead of recording what the revs were.
Oldsmobile had a circuit in the Aurora to prevent a running car from having the starter engaged; a common sense engineering move.
Umm, in a manual transmission, there is nothing preventing a person from shifting into the wrong gear. Not sure why it's BMW's fault that the guy missed his shift.
Maybe BMW should have spent time developing a rev limiter instead of recording what the revs were.
Oldsmobile had a circuit in the Aurora to prevent a running car from having the starter engaged; a common sense engineering move.
Umm, in a manual transmission, there is nothing preventing a person from shifting into the wrong gear. Not sure why it's BMW's fault that the guy missed his shift.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Umm, in a manual transmission, there is nothing preventing a person from shifting into the wrong gear. Not sure why it's BMW's fault that the guy missed his shift.
Exactly. I didn't think that an explanation would be necessary.
And as for locking out the starter when the engine is running? My 1973 Bavaria had that feature- as has every BMW since then...
Umm, in a manual transmission, there is nothing preventing a person from shifting into the wrong gear. Not sure why it's BMW's fault that the guy missed his shift.
Exactly. I didn't think that an explanation would be necessary.
And as for locking out the starter when the engine is running? My 1973 Bavaria had that feature- as has every BMW since then...
MolaKule
Staff member
I recently spoke to a physicist friend of mine who is also a forensic's investigator. Works for insurance companies, law enforcement, car companies, law firms, etc.
The black boxes are NOT infallible.
He cited two cases:
One in which the BB reported no seatbelt used. The accident photos taken by police clearly showed the dead occupant with a seatbelt firmly around his body.
Case number two. BB gave impossible impact speeds that would have produced such G's such that vehicle should have pamcaked, yet vehicle had a minor curve or bend in front bumper.
Just thought you would like to know!
The black boxes are NOT infallible.
He cited two cases:
One in which the BB reported no seatbelt used. The accident photos taken by police clearly showed the dead occupant with a seatbelt firmly around his body.
Case number two. BB gave impossible impact speeds that would have produced such G's such that vehicle should have pamcaked, yet vehicle had a minor curve or bend in front bumper.
Just thought you would like to know!
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See your owners manual about data rights for your event data recorder equiped cars. There is usually a paragraph or two.
Wiki actually has a halfway decent page on this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder
Wiki actually has a halfway decent page on this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder
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