I was talking to a customer today who's company here in Pittsburgh is involved with a British U.S. government financed program to convert used vegetable oil into Diesel fuel. He said the cost is running around $1 per gallon ready for delivery to the gas station.
He said they are also adding ethanol to the mix to help with combustion and emissions. One of the major upsides is much lower emissions using this fuel over petroleum based diesel. He said they should be on line by the end of the year.
The companies fuel once they go on line is being given period of 5 years to sell it tax free. Interesting stuff is starting to happen.
Bio Diesel $1 a gallon
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A buddy of mine makes his own bio diesel for about $.40 a gallon. His VW rabbit runs better on it then diesel fuel.
I have an aunt and uncle in one of the Carolinas(which escapes me at the moment) that are making biodiesel to run their farm equipment. People want this and it seems to be a very good idea, tax incentives are a great idea to help it really take off.
Used vegetable oils are excellent sources of residual fuel, but you have to examine their overall role in the energy cycle. As a percentage of USA diesel fuel consumption, used vegetable oil converted into biodiesel could only displace an extremely small (>1%) of overall diesel/kerosene demand.
In fact, most biodiesel manufactured in the United States today is the byproduct of soap (glycerine) manufacturing. The big soap makers, ie: P&G, Unilever, etc. use oils to manufacture glycerine, and the 'waste' product is sold to make biodiesel. But the demand for soap is obviously limited, and the demand for a high-value product like soap essentially subsidizes biodiesel production somewhat.
The price of soybean or sunflower oil right at the pressing plant might be low enough to justify processing fresh oil into fuel, and selling it back to the local farmers.
If we could cultivate a crop area of about 50 times this planet, this would be a great fuel. It works great for the few that use it, and more power to them, but it's not going to make much of a dent in overall energy supply.
It will be interesting to see how the California investment in hydrogen distribution and vehicle mandates works out over the next decade. We may already be in the midst of a huge shift in energy policy.
quote:I agree..we don't have tha space to grow enough to make it worth while. The Hydrogen thing is bogus. The energy needed to produce Hydrogen is even more impractical. When it requires 1.5 BtU to produce 1.0 BtU whats the point??? The only possible solution is Nuclear...but that won't happen. Of course a possible solution is conservation..along with closing our boarders. People coming coming in consume energy and don't bring any with them
Originally posted by keith: If we could cultivate a crop area of about 50 times this planet, this would be a great fuel. It works great for the few that use it, and more power to them, but it's not going to make much of a dent in overall energy supply. It will be interesting to see how the California investment in hydrogen distribution and vehicle mandates works out over the next decade. We may already be in the midst of a huge shift in energy policy.
![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon}
...But that won't happen either. Put in your order now. 2012 is just around the corner:
Here come the hydrogen cars...
VW of America has just agreed to warranty engines run on biodiesel. I am not sure about the rest of the companies although the Liberty comes with bio in the tank.
Steve
I do not know the specifics.
At least for us oil/engine cleanliness junkies would not bio diesal nasty the insides of our beloved motors?
How well is the used cooking oil "re-refined"
Thanks-
quote:Biodiesel, because of its natural ester content, actually has a nice cleaning effect on engines and fuel systems. Also adds lubricity. Properly manufactured, stored, and dispensed, biodiesel leads to cleaner running engines, lower soot levels, and, at least in VW TDI engines, can actually 'correct' some pre-existing problems due to intake clogging.
Originally posted by outrun: I do not know the specifics. At least for us oil/engine cleanliness junkies would not bio diesal nasty the insides of our beloved motors?
Here comes the hydrogen...
Nanotubes promise fuel from water
It's a ways off but we'll solve the energy problem one way or another. The doom and gloomers will be surprised.
keith, thanks for that...a direct solar to hydrogen system will mean a lot for the future.
I'm a bit of a "doom and gloom"er, predominantly not because I think that the questions are unanswerable, just that the price of energy has to be high to supply the research funds under the current arrangements.
Having the research end of the equation running so far behind what we need guarantees expensive energy as we deplete what we have, and the new streams come on line.
Users of used cooking oil for biodeisel are getting their raw product for free now, may even get paid to pick it up.
If serious money is being made off bio it won't be free for long.
Big investments will be made in technology that can make and kept in big pockets. Hydrogen generators fit that bill. Bio that can be made in small batches and with found equipment from home grown raw materials won't go anywhere unless the farmers are locked into contracts like dairy farmers that forbid selling to the public.(not a problem with corperate farms)
Agree with above re - 'Bio Diesel for "FREE"- I don't expect to see (in MY lifetime, 71 now) much change in the way fuel is distributed to the unwashed few.
Mind you I said MY lifetime - after that - I REALLY DON'T care (sorry)
One can "brew" their mixture all they want - - as in the N/C hills & moonshine, BUT - if a buck is to be made - the multinationals will be on it like a sailor on shore leave.
just one example - with all the people towing
trailers, & motor homes - ETC - campgrounds - snowbirds - do ya'all REALLY think any Gov'mint will cut out this market???
and thats only 1 segment of the transportation issues.
We will rape this planet completely before we give up our needs & wants.
Barry
quote:Kinda reminds me when I was in 3rd or 4th grade the people in the know predictd with nuclear power there would be so much electricity produced that it wouls almost have to be given away.
Originally posted by BEKAIR: Agree with above re - 'Bio Diesel for "FREE"- I don't expect to see (in MY lifetime, 71 now) much change in the way fuel is distributed to the unwashed few. Mind you I said MY lifetime - after that - I REALLY DON'T care (sorry) One can "brew" their mixture all they want - - as in the N/C hills & moonshine, BUT - if a buck is to be made - the multinationals will be on it like a sailor on shore leave. just one example - with all the people towing trailers, & motor homes - ETC - campgrounds - snowbirds - do ya'all REALLY think any Gov'mint will cut out this market??? and thats only 1 segment of the transportation issues. We will rape this planet completely before we give up our needs & wants. Barry
quote:Hold on now: VW only supports running B5. And the Liberty also comes with B5. That's 5% bio, 95% petroleum. A small step nevertheless....
Originally posted by srivett: VW of America has just agreed to warranty engines run on biodiesel. I am not sure about the rest of the companies although the Liberty comes with bio in the tank. Steve
Well, there is an upside to fast food joints anyway. ![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
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