Big screw in RFT tire - options?

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.


I don't think it's about saving money at the time of vehicle build. It's about saving space and saving weight. Some versions of the Chevy Cruze use run-flat tires as well, and I believe the reason is the weight savings over carrying around a jack and a fifth tire. Most modern Corvettes use run-flat tires, at least from the factory. My brother's 1999 C5 is one such example.

I'm with you on the compromises. I'd make the compromise by carrying a jack and a fifth tire around all the time. But those are the reasons nonetheless.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.
Run-flats also feature a rock-hard ride and cornering performance inferior to regular tires.
Also, if the run-flat feature is actually used, the tire is trash, just like any other tire.
What's the point?


From the time I first started working in the tire industry, there was a movement to get rid of the spare tire. It's the only spare provided by the vehicle manufacturer (OK, sometimes spares fuses are provided!)

So if you consider the weight of everything, the tire and wheel assembly could be 30% heavier and still come out lighter. Looking at tire weights, RFT's are about 15% heavier than the non-RFT. yup, a net gain.

Then there is the packaging issue. The assembly is awkwardly shaped, and the jack and lug wrench don't lend themselves to packaging either.

And what is the compromise? The tires ride rougher - but that is getting better all the time. They used to be horribly worse, but now they are a lot closer. And a lot of this is learning what the tire wants for springs and shocks.

And that's about the only compromise a RFT has to make. All those other reports about wear and noise are more about the normal tire compromise (wear vs grip) and about the vehicle's camber angle (BMW's are known throughout the tire industry as problematic.)

I think BMW looked into the future and saw an opportunity and took it. At this point in time, it appears it is paying off. Each iteration is better than the previous one.

 

[fdcg27]

IDK.
A donut and a typical scissors jack are neither heavy nor take up much space. The jacks typically used on German cars are long but slender and packaged just fine in various cars over many decades. These cars even typically came with a real tire carried in a well under the trunk. The brave always had the option of removing the spare to expand available space.
I've had some cars go through their entire lives without ever mounting the spare, but I've also been glad to have a spare in many cases.
Tires are more prone to failure than are most parts of the car and a flat or blowout is a no-go item.
Even a donut offers more driving range than a damaged runflat, which matters if you're in the middle of nowhere or badly need to get somewhere beyond the miles the runflat will hold together.
I just can't see any real advantages in a package as inefficient in weight and space utilization as a typical BMW.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A donut and a typical scissors jack are neither heavy nor take up much space.

I agree with you, but I think time has past both of us by. A donut can be as considered as "silly" as a run-flat, since they're both very temporary things. With my F-150, I have a full sized spare with the same wheel as the other four. I get a flat, I take the flat off, put the spare on and the hubcab, and the vehicle looks just like it did before the flat. The flat can be repaired (if possible) or replaced and it can become the spare. They're all nicely interchangeable.

So, I lament the loss of the full sized spare that looks like every other wheel on the vehicle. Unfortunately, donuts and run-flats are both less than perfect compromises, in my view. Of course, my F-150 can carry plenty of full sized spares (I have a topper) should I so choose. That's not exactly feasible in a G37.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.
Run-flats also feature a rock-hard ride and cornering performance inferior to regular tires.
Also, if the run-flat feature is actually used, the tire is trash, just like any other tire.
What's the point?


The point is that the battery gets mounted rear center where a spare would be, and gets better weight distribution.

Given that my 135i, for roughly the same dimensions as my 318i is MUCH more comfortable, Im not all that concerned about space utilization (do you make that argument about corvettes too?). It is heavy, but its also a convertible with a 6-cyl engine in it. No big deal really, since it will still do 0-60 in a little over 5 seconds and still give me 32 MPG on highway cruises. I cant complain about that.

Id prefer a spare and jack, and if it were a true family vehicle for using anywhere and everywhere Id be very keen on at least having a donut. For a convertible for nice weather commuting, I dont care all that much, and its fine. I dont have a complaint about RFT tires, though I may consider switching to a non-rft tire on risk if the options are better.



Havent had a chance to fix this yet, car is parked so no big deal. Tire still has full pressure... Maybe Im lucky and the screw didnt go through??!? The tread is pretty big and blocky.

They are Dunlop tires, and repairs are permitted. Thinking of taking it to one of those Goodyear corporate tire and service stores (doesnt GY own Dunlop?) to get it done to corporate specs...

 

[SteveSRT8]

I've had two cars with no spare for many years and only been stranded one time for minutes.

In one there is room for a full size spare and a small scissors jack in the trunk, which I sometimes carry to track events. The other has no room!

RFT's are some of the worst riding tires I have ever driven on. Definitely not worth their alleged 'advantage'...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Havent had a chance to fix this yet, car is parked so no big deal. Tire still has full pressure... Maybe Im lucky and the screw didnt go through??!? The tread is pretty big and blocky.

That would be some good luck. I've seen screws in tires that I Thought would be serious trouble, with a giant head and all. I pull it out and it's something like 1/4" long of less, and no damage done.

I think I mentioned here once before how a crescent wrench punctured my tire. I still have the wrench in my toolbox.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
.....They are Dunlop tires, and repairs are permitted. Thinking of taking it to one of those Goodyear corporate tire and service stores (doesnt GY own Dunlop?) to get it done to corporate specs...


I would be careful. Many "Goodyear" stores are franchise operations.

Plus, I am under the impression that even the stores that Goodyear owns themselves are only loosely connected to the corporation and not at all well connected to the tire design and manufacturing end of things. I would NOT assume any Goodyear store would do things according to the corporate guidelines.

 

[SatinSilver]

I'd keep a close eye on them if you take to a tire chain place. I still like the Costco tire repair option. I wouldn't put this off though. Once it's fixed you won't hardly think about it again. Even if this was a small new willy nilly nail I'd fix it asap.

One option is to dismount the wheel, drop it off at Costco, do some errands or go to work and pick it up later or the next morning. That way your not waiting around for hours while it's being fixed. Maybe even go to DD in Roswell, NJ, get some coffee and visit with GHT.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Big old beefy screw. Right in the center of the rear rft tire on my 135i. Big old screw with a giant head.


Pics please!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I've had two cars with no spare for many years and only been stranded one time for minutes.

In one there is room for a full size spare and a small scissors jack in the trunk, which I sometimes carry to track events. The other has no room!

RFT's are some of the worst riding tires I have ever driven on. Definitely not worth their alleged 'advantage'...


So you go spareless with non rft tires and have only been stranded for minutes as the worst-case? Sounds good to me. I was kind of thinking of using one of these michelins that everyone speaks so highly of next time... even if not RFT.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
I'd keep a close eye on them if you take to a tire chain place. I still like the Costco tire repair option. I wouldn't put this off though. Once it's fixed you won't hardly think about it again. Even if this was a small new willy nilly nail I'd fix it asap.

One option is to dismount the wheel, drop it off at Costco, do some errands or go to work and pick it up later or the next morning. That way your not waiting around for hours while it's being fixed. Maybe even go to DD in Roswell, NJ, get some coffee and visit with GHT.


Called Costco, they will not plug or patch RFT tires...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I've had two cars with no spare for many years and only been stranded one time for minutes.

In one there is room for a full size spare and a small scissors jack in the trunk, which I sometimes carry to track events. The other has no room!

RFT's are some of the worst riding tires I have ever driven on. Definitely not worth their alleged 'advantage'...


So you go spareless with non rft tires and have only been stranded for minutes as the worst-case? Sounds good to me. I was kind of thinking of using one of these michelins that everyone speaks so highly of next time... even if not RFT.


The PSS? DO IT!!!

My car has no spare and no run-flat tires. It has a can of "tire in a can" and a ///M branded compressor in the spare tire well, LOL!!!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I've had two cars with no spare for many years and only been stranded one time for minutes.

In one there is room for a full size spare and a small scissors jack in the trunk, which I sometimes carry to track events. The other has no room!

RFT's are some of the worst riding tires I have ever driven on. Definitely not worth their alleged 'advantage'...


So you go spareless with non rft tires and have only been stranded for minutes as the worst-case? Sounds good to me. I was kind of thinking of using one of these michelins that everyone speaks so highly of next time... even if not RFT.


Yep, bought my first one in August of 05. The massive factory 20 X 9's are just too big to fit in the trunk, you get what Overkill has, a can of goo and a compressor! I also carry a huge can of fix a flat just in case.

Our other car with RFT's has never been stranded at all, as soon as they wear down I will replace them. There is a HUGE difference in ride quality IME.

The PSS are a gigantic upgrade. Quieter, smoother riding, and WAAAAAY stickier as long as you are not in the frozen tundra...

 

[JHZR2]

I might carry a bicycle pump and a plug kit - I thnk that other stuff damages wheels, and who knows what it does to a TPMS!

Still need to get another 10-30k+ out of these tires.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.
Run-flats also feature a rock-hard ride and cornering performance inferior to regular tires.
Also, if the run-flat feature is actually used, the tire is trash, just like any other tire.
What's the point?


From the time I first started working in the tire industry, there was a movement to get rid of the spare tire. It's the only spare provided by the vehicle manufacturer (OK, sometimes spares fuses are provided!)

So if you consider the weight of everything, the tire and wheel assembly could be 30% heavier and still come out lighter. Looking at tire weights, RFT's are about 15% heavier than the non-RFT. yup, a net gain.


False! It is a net loss, because it is ALL UNSPRUNG AND ROTATING WEIGHT!

Quote:
Then there is the packaging issue. The assembly is awkwardly shaped, and the jack and lug wrench don't lend themselves to packaging either.


It's not rocket science.

Quote:
And what is the compromise? The tires ride rougher - but that is getting better all the time. They used to be horribly worse, but now they are a lot closer. And a lot of this is learning what the tire wants for springs and shocks.

And that's about the only compromise a RFT has to make. All those other reports about wear and noise are more about the normal tire compromise (wear vs grip) and about the vehicle's camber angle (BMW's are known throughout the tire industry as problematic.)

I think BMW looked into the future and saw an opportunity and took it. At this point in time, it appears it is paying off. Each iteration is better than the previous one.


Run-flats are dreadful. They ride like granite, handle poorly, and they cost a fortune. Some can't be repaired. Not on a bet.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.
Run-flats also feature a rock-hard ride and cornering performance inferior to regular tires.
Also, if the run-flat feature is actually used, the tire is trash, just like any other tire.
What's the point?


The point is that the battery gets mounted rear center where a spare would be, and gets better weight distribution.


Chrysler managed that on my Magnum, WITH a spare tire!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Why are run-flats even used?
The one series BMW is not particularly efficient in either weight or space utilization and the premium paid to mount OEM run-flats over the cost of the middling performance tires that would otherwise be used, a jack, a lug wrench and a donut can't be saving much money for BMW.
Run-flats also feature a rock-hard ride and cornering performance inferior to regular tires.
Also, if the run-flat feature is actually used, the tire is trash, just like any other tire.
What's the point?


The point is that the battery gets mounted rear center where a spare would be, and gets better weight distribution.


Chrysler managed that on my Magnum, WITH a spare tire!


BMW managed it in my 318 with a full size spare.

My car is no magnum. Note that Steve and overkill both have the same situation - oops, Chrysler apparently did that in a 300 srt too.

Oh yeah, Honda does it in their odessey touring vans too. Surely there is space in a minivan for a donut.
So your point???

 

[Jarlaxle]

My point is, "the battery is in the back" is a red herring!

SRT's got no spare because the donut will not clear the brakes.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
My point is, "the battery is in the back" is a red herring!

SRT's got no spare because the donut will not clear the brakes.


And my point is that some other cars, like the Honda Odessey Touring, also use RFT - why????

So my car doesnt have big calipers that a donut wont clear?

Mine:

Not mine but a closeup that I had from a photoshoot I did:

They cant make a bigger donut?