UOAs are not appropriate to be used to gauge the relative amount of engine wear because they only measure small particle sizes and the particle size distribution is not the same with different oils.
Better oil service for the same money, 1 change of Synth or 2 of SM Conventional?
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The improper disposal does exist and has been studied extensively:quote:
Originally posted by toocrazy2yoo:
Environmental impact? Not to hassle you, Jacek, but yer staring to sound a little like GreenPeace here.
With the recycling going on, what's the impact?
What, filters? As opposed to billions of old PCs, monitors and peripherals in the landfills draining mercury and lead into the ground?
If this oil-change fanatacism leads to longer-lasting vehicles, the impact of the "excess" number of filters from "excessive" OCI is trumped by the extended use of our cars, replacement of which requires a tremendous amount of energy and resources expended building a new car.
With that and the recycling of the oil, we oil-changers more than pay our way, enviromentally-speaking, anyway. If I'm wrong, show me where?
http://pri.sfsu.edu/reports/CIWMB Version.pdf#search="ESTIMATION OF OIL RECYCLING"
Even if the recycled oil is burned completely, it still contributes to pollution.
The PC disposal issue has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.
And finally, please prove that 2x more frequent oil changes with dino vs. synthetic prolonge engine life.
Prove that it does not.
Please prove that running Synthetic WILL make your engine run longer.
I have proven that running Synthetic will cost more. Most of the time, you can get name brand dino for $1.80 qt if you don't buy it on sale.
(I've got hundreds of quarts of oil that was .49 to .89 cents a quart that I've bought on sale)
The best price that I've seen for name brand Syn is $3.79 a quart)
You'd have to run the syn over twice as long at those prices.
I have to change every 5k or less and even after the warrenty runs out, I'll still change my oils 4-5k with a good conventional.
If your running Syn with the mindset that your engine will last longer, forget it. Not true.
unless your manual states that you must run it, your paying the $$ for the feel good feeling or your going for extended OCIs.
My oil change cost incl filter for my truck is $5. My toyota is $4. If I want to stay informed a UOA will raise the cost of the oil change to $24-$25..
Less than a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 EP...
If I don't want the UOA, I can do SIX oil changes (which is 24k to 30k miles) for the SAME cost as 6 quarts of Mobil 1.
Please run the Mobil 1 for 30k and I'll run my cheap dino and lets see who's engine is cleaner and last longer!
Take care, Bill
PS: Please make sure you post your UOA on your Syn run on your Toyota. I have posted my Mobil 1 UOA and it was not as good as the Pennzoil dino UOA! For the same mileage!
I would not recommend running the same filter through 2 OCI's using dino. My rule is, if you change the oil, you change the filter too. That said, I have recently gone from running Havoline dino with an OCI of 6K to running M1 EP with a 12K OCI. The cost is almost exactly the same, but I now get the benefits of running a full syn, and having to crawl under the car only half as many times.
Agree 100%
With any oil.
If your going to take the filter off, throw it away.. (after you cut it open and take photos and post it on BITOG!)
Bill
I think it also depends on the engine. My high reving 30 valve v6 is much harder on oil than a GM pushrod 3.8. German Castrol is very shear stable in my motor whereas a conventional (not straight weight) would loose viscosity. My engine was designed for higher viscosity oil and I would probably be ok with a 15w-40, but I'm not comfortable with it in the winter.
Bill, no need to go postal.
I also do 5000 miles/6 months changes as my Toy cars are under warranty. After that, I will go 10000 miles/12 months on GC, at least in my corolla (yes, warranty expires soon).
My experience in Europe is that almost every car runs at least 10000 miles/12 months on quality oils, yet we do 3-5000 OCI with c.r.a.p.p.y dino oils in USA. So behind the curve!
Also consider that you got a good deal on oil. Regular is $2 or so (and should be higher IMO).
I also do 5000 miles/6 months changes as my Toy cars are under warranty. After that, I will go 10000 miles/12 months on GC, at least in my corolla (yes, warranty expires soon).
My experience in Europe is that almost every car runs at least 10000 miles/12 months on quality oils, yet we do 3-5000 OCI with c.r.a.p.p.y dino oils in USA. So behind the curve!
Also consider that you got a good deal on oil. Regular is $2 or so (and should be higher IMO).
Yo, Jacek!
Now, go hug a tree, will ya?
Sure it does, as regards the environmental impact of oil changes, which ALSO had no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.. YOU were off topic first.
Now, go hug a tree, will ya?
For years the mechanics have been saying that you are better off changing petroleum oil every 3000 miles than you are changing synthetic oil every 6000 miles. Then Mobil 1 did a test and changed synthetic oil every 7500 miles. The engine lasted 1 million miles.
Also I do not believe that the new car dealers can void out a warranty if you choose to drain Mobil 1 Extended Performance at 15,000 mile intervals under normal driving conditions.
For years the mechanics have been telling us that there is no advantage to a synthetic oil because if you extend your drain interval your warranty is void. But these statements from mechanics are simply not true and the mechanics know this. The mechanics are simply looking for excuses to void out your warranty and if it is not one excuse it will be another excuse. A lube oil analysis will be proof of an oils servicability at extended drain intervals.
For years the mechanics have been telling us that there is no advantage to a synthetic oil because if you extend your drain interval your warranty is void. But these statements from mechanics are simply not true and the mechanics know this. The mechanics are simply looking for excuses to void out your warranty and if it is not one excuse it will be another excuse. A lube oil analysis will be proof of an oils servicability at extended drain intervals.
LOL, go **** yourself.quote:
Originally posted by toocrazy2yoo:
Now, go hug a tree, will ya?[/QB]
Sure, Bot, but UOA is 20.00 minimum, and you have to pay more to get a TBN on top of that..
You might as well change at 4 or 5 thousand and call it a day if you worry much. I'm running my Platinum to 7500-10K. Dino I'll change at 4 or 5K. It's all the same..
You might as well change at 4 or 5 thousand and call it a day if you worry much. I'm running my Platinum to 7500-10K. Dino I'll change at 4 or 5K. It's all the same..
Yes but if you forget to change your oil it is a lot cheaper to pay 20 bucks for the oil analysis then it is to have a dealer void out your warranty. My sister always forgets to change her oil when her car is under warranty but she was willing to pay for one analysis. Most of the time she changes the oil filter every 7500 miles and leaves the oil in for 15,000 miles so the dealer will think the car is getting serviced every 7500 miles.
What would I rather have in my engine, new SM conventional or half-used synth? Can some people answer that?
That changing the filter stuff is silly, a filter is good for as long as it's good, not 1/2 as long. Changing the oil and leaving the filter does not affect it, it's still just as good as if you left the (synth) oil in, get it? For example, if you do a 10k on synth with one filter, the filter condition at the end is the same as if you did 2 5k intervals of conventional, maybe the condition after a change of conventional is even better because you took out a portion of the contaminates when you drained. Let's put on our thinking hats people.
That changing the filter stuff is silly, a filter is good for as long as it's good, not 1/2 as long. Changing the oil and leaving the filter does not affect it, it's still just as good as if you left the (synth) oil in, get it? For example, if you do a 10k on synth with one filter, the filter condition at the end is the same as if you did 2 5k intervals of conventional, maybe the condition after a change of conventional is even better because you took out a portion of the contaminates when you drained. Let's put on our thinking hats people.
I "believe" you'd be suing the heck out of the manufacturer to get them to do ANYTHING for you if you had a problem covered under warrenty and you didn't have proof of maintenance as outlined in the owner's manual (provided the manufacturer demanded the proof), and it would be an up hill battle akin to driving a lowered honda civic up Mt. Everest.
[ August 19, 2006, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]
Hey Jacek..
For an entity that is SO wrong, SO often, you're a pretty vindictive guy.
Nice talk. You kiss your Mom hello with that filthy mouth you got on you? She know you "talk" like that?
For an entity that is SO wrong, SO often, you're a pretty vindictive guy.
And again:
Hmmm, call me nuts but I would MUCH rather have Mobil 1 0W-40 in my engine with 5,000 miles on it than a new fill of SM.
This question has been presented in a way that makes it a "Hobsons Choice", particularly the fact that you not taking into account the value of your labor ($15-$20) to do an oil change and re-cycle the used oil afterwards.
Why even ask a question when you know the answer you want in advance?
For the record, I'd go with Amsoil and 12k-15k intervals over a dino oil and 5000-6000 mile intervals. That's based on 28 years and about 600k miles of total use with excellent long term results. I can't personally vouch for the quality of other synthetics, but I'm very impressed with the Redline UOA data I see, in ways that may not be apparent to most folks.
TS
Why even ask a question when you know the answer you want in advance?
For the record, I'd go with Amsoil and 12k-15k intervals over a dino oil and 5000-6000 mile intervals. That's based on 28 years and about 600k miles of total use with excellent long term results. I can't personally vouch for the quality of other synthetics, but I'm very impressed with the Redline UOA data I see, in ways that may not be apparent to most folks.
TS
I'm "asking" to get input and ideas as well as disperse them. TS, it is possible to say that SM conventional can go 10k-12k, so at 6k you would be draining it at half it's potential, along with a certian amount of contaminates, verses using the AMSoil out to near-capacity. I'm just not "sold" the miracle oil formulas that run perfectly out past 10k. In gerneral, I'm not saying to go and change oil at 3000 miles, it would turn from fun to a pita for me...almost every month, but even conservative Honda says change conventional oil at 10k and filter at 20k.
After 6 months/7500 miles I'll be dumping the Mobil 1 0w-30 out of my wife's CR-V and will NOT be putting it into my car. I tend to think fresh MC would be a better service.
After 6 months/7500 miles I'll be dumping the Mobil 1 0w-30 out of my wife's CR-V and will NOT be putting it into my car. I tend to think fresh MC would be a better service.
Do you have any science to back that up? From what I've read and seen, you've got it backwards.
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