Other than you placing non-existent restrictions for comparison... I'll answer this simply... I use Mobil 1... ONLY.
Better oil service for the same money, 1 change of Synth or 2 of SM Conventional?
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I don't mind changing the oil every 3-5 k in the Jeep. It gives me a chance to get underneath it, grease all the zerk fitings, and scope things out.
If you make 1-2 mi trips consistently, the oil rarely has a chance to warm-up to normal operating temperature to burn off any fuel dilution. Thus, in such a case, more frequent changes would be wise, IMO.
Well with sm conventional oil pricing rising you have to start looking at synthetic hard. The price gap is closing rapidly between the two. Yes the new sm oil's are good but you reach a point when the difference is only one to two dollars per quart then you have to say synthetic is the winner.
I would use synthetic because IF there was some sort of a leak(i.e coolant,fuel)dino oil will shear or degrade faster than synthetic oil. Seen plenty of UOA' that prove this.
Oil cost is a very small fraction (4%) of the total operating cost of my Land Cruiser, even with an 8 quart sump and more frequent than completely sane oil changes.
Splitting hairs over the $20 or $50 per year difference between one scenario or the other is a non-starter for me.
Given the parameters set at the beginning of the thread, I'd go decent dino twice as often.
Splitting hairs over the $20 or $50 per year difference between one scenario or the other is a non-starter for me.
Given the parameters set at the beginning of the thread, I'd go decent dino twice as often.
Finally, some good responses....so now I have to re-formualte the question! At least re-define the question. Cost is not an issue. Obviously, $2/q more is precisely what another fresh quart of SM oil cost! Strictly speaking- Say an OC costs $10 for SM Conventional and $20 for Synth. That's a set-in-stone factor. Now, let's take 10k as a given synth OCI, (you can take 12k or 15k or 20k) that makes it possible to do TWO SM changes for the SAME money....everyone with me? So, be it 5k, 6k or 7.5k for SM conventional compared to double that for synth....same money. Leftover oil in the single filter is a non-issue either, I can drain and re-use my filter and it's small. So, is it better for my overall engine conditoni to do 2 conventional changes or one synth change for the same money. Let's even take it to the extreme and say we will run right to the point of sludge, be it with the conventional or synth and do 2X or 1/2 the interval with the other product. I tend to think fresh SM conventional is better then half-used synth....maybe that is the most descriptive I can get.
btw- I think 5w-SM can do well in cold conditions.
btw- I think 5w-SM can do well in cold conditions.
Tim, you're not getting it. The question is about the service interval at 1/2 the rate of synth and which is better. Assume the same money and twice the oil. fwiw, I service 4-5 cars, so $200+ a year is an issue.
Yeah, I guess the actual engine and newness of the vehicle would matter a bit, but in a new vehicle, why not more changes of conventional if it would be cleaner? I run both synth and conventional in my 2006 Acura. I don't feel like conventional oil is "bad" or "dirty" or not good enough for my new car. Some guys just want synth for the sake of "having the best" or saying "Mobil 1, the race car dudes use it too".
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume a middle-aged car and one that does not burn oil, burning oil and using synth is not a great combo.
I got on this subject looking at some oil for wife's CRV. It has 100k and she does 1200 a month, no short trips. I was planning on buying synth for 6 month ocis, but I thought darn, I could buy 2 changes of GTX or Havoline for the same money. Likely Hi-Mi or Blend oil would be the best choice. I left the store without oil and will probally use some of the Delo 30 I already have and water it down with some Havoline.
I'm beginning to think SM conventional is a bargain at $2.
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume a middle-aged car and one that does not burn oil, burning oil and using synth is not a great combo.
I got on this subject looking at some oil for wife's CRV. It has 100k and she does 1200 a month, no short trips. I was planning on buying synth for 6 month ocis, but I thought darn, I could buy 2 changes of GTX or Havoline for the same money. Likely Hi-Mi or Blend oil would be the best choice. I left the store without oil and will probally use some of the Delo 30 I already have and water it down with some Havoline.
I'm beginning to think SM conventional is a bargain at $2.
I agree also.
Plus, Conventional oil is $10 (or less) for 5 qts and Syn is $19 (for the cheapest) to almost $30 (mobil 1 EP) for 5 quarts.
Also, Warranty states for many cars that you have to change every 3k (dodge) 5k (toyota) which means you've got to change it out no matter if it is Syn or dino.
The MFG will not care, they will only care WHEN you changed it, not what type.. (Ford did check what weight I used when I had them pay for head gaskets...)
I've always gone for the get the contaminants out is better in the long run.
With no short trips and 1200 miles a month, I'd go with the conventional oil every 4-6 months (so either 2 or 3 oil changes per year) and your CRV will last as long as you want it to.
If you use Halovine @ $9 for 5 qts plus a supertech filter for $2 thats $33 per year for oil changes.
The engine will be WELL protected and clean for a long life.
If you have no HM issues (like using oil or leaks) STAY with the normal oils. Your honda does not need HM oils at a low 100k on the clock IMO.
Take care, Bill
Fresh SM conventional or half-used Synth...umm, yuk.
Guys are talking about a spit of used conventional oil left in a filter verses a whole engine full of used synth?
You seem to imply that (lack of) cleaniness might be a problem. I am not an expert, but there seem to be several factors that determine if oil is getting dirty/contaminated at a high rate or a low one. Age, older cars with more wear on rings, etc. may get oil dirty sooner. Sump size, more oil to disperse contaminants vs small sump. Driving patter, city/stop/go vs highway/cruise,....
I have Hondas with small 3+qt sumps and about 30% of commute is city, so I would prefer dino especially for the older one. Also they have tiny filters (OEM). On the other hand people say Hondas are "easy on oil". Others with larger sumps of 5-6qt may be perfectly safe with synth for 10K or 15K, don't know.
"I say 10k is a breeze on SM conventional"
Again, for my Hondas I doubt this is the case, at least for the smaller 1.5L Civic. The smaller Honda engines work hard and my oil always comes out 100% black at 4K.
If you are looking for a broad generalization (with the usual cavaets) then here is an attempt:
older vehicle and/or larger sump and/or mostly highway = dino
newer vehicle and/or extreme weather (cold/hot) and/or city and/or want-to-keep-forever = synth
Again just a very crude generalization. Feel free to modify
Auto-Union
What do you think about the notion of using a quart to rinse the motor with after all the oil has drained out? I've read some posts on this board of guys doing that.
What do you think about the notion of using a quart to rinse the motor with after all the oil has drained out? I've read some posts on this board of guys doing that.
Up here in Canada the gap is as wide as ever. I just picked up a 5qt jug of Pennzoil for $12 plus free filter, which is about $2qt. In the same store's flier next week they have M1 EP $10qt and Formula1 synth $4.5qt. So even the "weakest" synth oil is double the cost of a decent dino. M1 is around $8qt these days, 4x more expensive!
So here the choice is clear. I still use synth for winter to avoid changes in cold and better startup protection. Otherwise dino is the winner.
This is so funny. People agonize about split hear differences on wear or cleanness issue but don't give a dam about environmental impact.
Environmental impact? Not to hassle you, Jacek, but yer staring to sound a little like GreenPeace here.
With the recycling going on, what's the impact?
What, filters? As opposed to billions of old PCs, monitors and peripherals in the landfills draining mercury and lead into the ground?
If this oil-change fanatacism leads to longer-lasting vehicles, the impact of the "excess" number of filters from "excessive" OCI is trumped by the extended use of our cars, replacement of which requires a tremendous amount of energy and resources expended building a new car.
With that and the recycling of the oil, we oil-changers more than pay our way, enviromentally-speaking, anyway. If I'm wrong, show me where?
With the recycling going on, what's the impact?
What, filters? As opposed to billions of old PCs, monitors and peripherals in the landfills draining mercury and lead into the ground?
If this oil-change fanatacism leads to longer-lasting vehicles, the impact of the "excess" number of filters from "excessive" OCI is trumped by the extended use of our cars, replacement of which requires a tremendous amount of energy and resources expended building a new car.
With that and the recycling of the oil, we oil-changers more than pay our way, enviromentally-speaking, anyway. If I'm wrong, show me where?
A synthetic will help with start-up wear at any temp since it flows better and has esters that will cling to metal. Also, you have to take into account any gas mileage savings you could get by using a synthetic.
Wear differences are not apparent in UOA. As for flushing, I have some Delo 30 that I use for 1/2 day and then pour into a "friend's" car (free OC) or use for topping in MIL's car that uses 1q over 2000mi. One could just store their flush oil and reuse it a few times to flush inbetween changes. I don't think that's a bad idea at all. My oil extractor lets the oil come out without contamination. It does come out tinted after 20 miles.
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