In gereral would a group 4 oil make more hp than a group 3 oil? Well oil doesnt make hp i mean like less drag more freed up hp. I know a 5/20 would in theroy give u more hp than a 5/30 oil. How much is, my guess is half a pony? But main question is would a group 4 free up more hp than a group 3? Example, royal purple had a mustang and did a dyno with there oil and unkown oil. Showed something like 12hp increase. Oil weights wernt disclosed either. I mean maybe rp 0w20 vs a conventional 20w50 could be how they got a hp increase. The whole point of this post is my friend claims because he runs redline in his rice Honda, he has a edge agiast other rival hondas with the same mods. I told him if anything it might be worth a hp or so and not be felt by the butt dyno.
Better oil equals more hp?
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You're better off going on a diet to improve the power/weight ratio.
Originally Posted By: Silk
You're better off going on a diet to improve the power/weight ratio.
The truth has been spoken
You're better off going on a diet to improve the power/weight ratio.
The truth has been spoken
Im not trying to get any more power. Im just wondering if there is any truth behind it
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Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
Im not trying to get any more power. Im just wondering if there is any truth behind it
The truth is probably as small as the horsepower gain.
In reality, oil alone does little all by itself to gain hp however. It's all the little tweaks in a race car/engine that gains some power. For the racer who is looking for every little bit of gain with items such as CAI, exhaust, tires, lower vehicle weight, OIL(and other fluids). Then there may be some gains when put all together.
But for the everyday car, there is little to be had in terms of horsepower just by one small MOD all by itself.
Im not trying to get any more power. Im just wondering if there is any truth behind it
The truth is probably as small as the horsepower gain.
In reality, oil alone does little all by itself to gain hp however. It's all the little tweaks in a race car/engine that gains some power. For the racer who is looking for every little bit of gain with items such as CAI, exhaust, tires, lower vehicle weight, OIL(and other fluids). Then there may be some gains when put all together.
But for the everyday car, there is little to be had in terms of horsepower just by one small MOD all by itself.
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To gain HP, you need to drop viscosity AND decrease friction coefficient in the boundary/mixed lubrication regime. So a relatively thin oil with loads of friction modification will net more power than a thicker oil without.
With regards to your friend with his honda: if he chose the Red Line oil with the same viscosity as printed on the oil cap or in the manual, he'll have LESS hp than someone buying off the shelf. Reason is that Red Line oils have a very high HTHS viscosity (excellent protection to stay out of mixed/boundary lubrication as much as possible) for their grade. If he chose according to HTHS and dropped the SAE Grades, he might have a bit more HP. But we're talking less than 1 HP difference unless he also dropped HTHS viscosity which could get him in dangerous territory.
For example: a typical ILSAC 5w-30 oil has a HTHS of around 3.0-3.1 cP. Red Line 5w-30 however has a HTHS viscosity of 3.7 cP. Red Line 5w-20 however has a HTHS viscosity of 3.0 cP again. Only the drag race oils will go below this but those shouldn't be used for anything resembling normal oil change intervals.
Between the thickest and the thinnest (which still works), the difference won't be more than 2-3 bhp in a 4 cilinder engine, with 5 main bearings, 4 big ends and 12 pistong rings + 4 piston skirts. Valve trains typically like a bit higher viscosity so won't be punishing the power output as much by running thicker oil. Oil pumps don't consume much power.
With regards to your friend with his honda: if he chose the Red Line oil with the same viscosity as printed on the oil cap or in the manual, he'll have LESS hp than someone buying off the shelf. Reason is that Red Line oils have a very high HTHS viscosity (excellent protection to stay out of mixed/boundary lubrication as much as possible) for their grade. If he chose according to HTHS and dropped the SAE Grades, he might have a bit more HP. But we're talking less than 1 HP difference unless he also dropped HTHS viscosity which could get him in dangerous territory.
For example: a typical ILSAC 5w-30 oil has a HTHS of around 3.0-3.1 cP. Red Line 5w-30 however has a HTHS viscosity of 3.7 cP. Red Line 5w-20 however has a HTHS viscosity of 3.0 cP again. Only the drag race oils will go below this but those shouldn't be used for anything resembling normal oil change intervals.
Between the thickest and the thinnest (which still works), the difference won't be more than 2-3 bhp in a 4 cilinder engine, with 5 main bearings, 4 big ends and 12 pistong rings + 4 piston skirts. Valve trains typically like a bit higher viscosity so won't be punishing the power output as much by running thicker oil. Oil pumps don't consume much power.
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Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
Not measurable.
Wind direction will make more difference.
Wind direction will make more difference.
Take the pail of sand out of the trunk when winter's over.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
There are better ways to get your point across than by acting like a tool. I suppose next time I could direct you to the tool sub forum..
Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
There are better ways to get your point across than by acting like a tool. I suppose next time I could direct you to the tool sub forum..
Thinner oil can make a difference. Sponsored Pro-Stock drag cars that can afford the parts breakage, run 0W-20 oils and it's worth 6~8 HP at 9,000 RPM. The engines are built around thin fluids as much as possible. But it's a 1% gain in a sport where 1% might equal a pay day ...
On the street, a 2 psi drop in tire pressure would eat it up in a heart beat ...
On the street, a 2 psi drop in tire pressure would eat it up in a heart beat ...
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Originally Posted By: Timo325
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
There are better ways to get your point across than by acting like a tool. I suppose next time I could direct you to the tool sub forum..
Do you have a problem with Asians you little [censored]? I am Asian and I don't appreciate it one bit. How about you pm me and we solve your little problem.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dylan1303
rice Honda
What does this mean? Is he taking about a food? We have a food,cooking,etc subform here. You may get a better answer there.
There are better ways to get your point across than by acting like a tool. I suppose next time I could direct you to the tool sub forum..
Do you have a problem with Asians you little [censored]? I am Asian and I don't appreciate it one bit. How about you pm me and we solve your little problem.
Originally Posted By: RationalRussian
Originally Posted By: Silk
You're better off going on a diet to improve the power/weight ratio.
The truth has been spoken
+1 Oil isn't going to do much
Originally Posted By: Silk
You're better off going on a diet to improve the power/weight ratio.
The truth has been spoken
+1 Oil isn't going to do much
Thinner oil must reduce power losses or the automotive industry wouldn't have gone in the direction of 0W20's and soon 0W16's. It's the same for gearboxes and diffs which are using thinner oil than they used to.
There must be a few ways to cancel out or add to the 1% or so benefit that thin oil provides. I looked at tyre pressures and concluded it needs a 10% variation in pressure to impact MPG by 0.8% You can see larger drag variations comparing standard and low rolling resistance tyres.
Anyone know about brake drag ? There must be a lot of very stiff single piston calipers where the seals can't overcome the friction and therefore don't retract the pads as they should.
There must be a few ways to cancel out or add to the 1% or so benefit that thin oil provides. I looked at tyre pressures and concluded it needs a 10% variation in pressure to impact MPG by 0.8% You can see larger drag variations comparing standard and low rolling resistance tyres.
Anyone know about brake drag ? There must be a lot of very stiff single piston calipers where the seals can't overcome the friction and therefore don't retract the pads as they should.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Thinner oil can make a difference. Sponsored Pro-Stock drag cars that can afford the parts breakage, run 0W-20 oils and it's worth 6~8 HP at 9,000 RPM. The engines are built around thin fluids as much as possible. But it's a 1% gain in a sport where 1% might equal a pay day ...
On the street, ..a 2 psi drop in tire pressure would eat it up in a heart beat .
Exactly ...... and facing prospect of increased engine wear, albeit 'acceptable'.
Thinner oil can make a difference. Sponsored Pro-Stock drag cars that can afford the parts breakage, run 0W-20 oils and it's worth 6~8 HP at 9,000 RPM. The engines are built around thin fluids as much as possible. But it's a 1% gain in a sport where 1% might equal a pay day ...
On the street, ..a 2 psi drop in tire pressure would eat it up in a heart beat .
Exactly ...... and facing prospect of increased engine wear, albeit 'acceptable'.
Originally Posted By: barryh
Thinner oil must reduce power losses or the automotive industry wouldn't have gone in the direction of 0W20's and soon 0W16's. It's the same for gearboxes and diffs which are using thinner oil than they used to.
There must be a few ways to cancel out or add to the 1% or so benefit that thin oil provides. I looked at tyre pressures and concluded it needs a 10% variation in pressure to impact MPG by 0.8% You can see larger drag variations comparing standard and low rolling resistance tyres.
Anyone know about brake drag ? There must be a lot of very stiff single piston calipers where the seals can't overcome the friction and therefore don't retract the pads as they should.
It's one reason I strip/clean and inspect my brakes every year. So far that's all they required doing, didn't have to replace any parts or grease anything other than contact areas of the pads on the calipers. But that's not my experience on cars o customers that come in for maintenance: 5 cars out of 10 have dragging brakes to some degree and this can start as early as the first maintenance (usually 15,000 km)
Thinner oil must reduce power losses or the automotive industry wouldn't have gone in the direction of 0W20's and soon 0W16's. It's the same for gearboxes and diffs which are using thinner oil than they used to.
There must be a few ways to cancel out or add to the 1% or so benefit that thin oil provides. I looked at tyre pressures and concluded it needs a 10% variation in pressure to impact MPG by 0.8% You can see larger drag variations comparing standard and low rolling resistance tyres.
Anyone know about brake drag ? There must be a lot of very stiff single piston calipers where the seals can't overcome the friction and therefore don't retract the pads as they should.
It's one reason I strip/clean and inspect my brakes every year. So far that's all they required doing, didn't have to replace any parts or grease anything other than contact areas of the pads on the calipers. But that's not my experience on cars o customers that come in for maintenance: 5 cars out of 10 have dragging brakes to some degree and this can start as early as the first maintenance (usually 15,000 km)
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