What are the best driving habits for allowing a clutch on a manual trannied car to live as long as possible? Basically, I never downshift if at all possible except on huge steep hills. Also, I always keep it in neutral with my foot off the pedal at stoplights and when idling to save the throwout bearing. However, lately, when engaging the clutch on steep hills (like in front of my house EVERY MORNING), my clutch STINKS like it's about to go out. I try and let the pedal out as smooth and freely as possible, but on hills sometimes, you just have to kind of ride it a little harder than yea want; know what I mean? Any suggestions?
Best ways to make a clutch live a long life?
- Thread starter Drew99GT
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Don't slip it, ever, period. Sorry I can't be more descriptive but it's hard to describe. You just do it...
There is no reason to slip a clutch even from a stop on a steep hill. Just takes a little heel/toe action.
190k on my original clutch and it works perfectly. I downshift like a madman.
There is no reason to slip a clutch even from a stop on a steep hill. Just takes a little heel/toe action.
190k on my original clutch and it works perfectly. I downshift like a madman.
Time it so if there's a red light ahead, uphill, you creep up towards it at a slow speed with the clutch out. Odds are it'll be green before you get there. The same applies in heavy stop & go traffic; it's great if you get a bus or 18 wheeler next to you so you don't get people whizzing around you to steal your speace.
I wasted a clutch in 60K when I was a snotnosed punk. I downshifted a 1st gen. Scirroco aaaaall the time.
The mechanic who replaced the cluch told me to use it like an on/off switch. No slipping or feathering. You can use the gas pedal to match rpm better anyway.
That was the last clutch I had to replace early. I got 208,000 out of the one in my Saab 900.
The mechanic who replaced the cluch told me to use it like an on/off switch. No slipping or feathering. You can use the gas pedal to match rpm better anyway.
That was the last clutch I had to replace early. I got 208,000 out of the one in my Saab 900.
Jason, I've tried learning to heal and toe from a stop on a hill, but I end up smoking/slipping the clutch even worse, or flat out stalling! I do more damage in the process of trying to learn than I do from just driving normally. I can heal and toe really good when downshifting though cause the gas pedal is very close to the brake pedal and they are about the same height in my car. Can you describe exactly how you do it from a stop on a hill? I can hold the brake and give it gas with my right foot, but when I completally release my toe off the brake pedal, it's very hard to continue giving it gas with the heal of my right foot. I either floor it at that point and REALLY smoke the clutch, or I stall.
ummmmm powershift?
Ok , well actually you do have to slip the clutch SLIGHTLY...but at less than 1k rpm...actually I wouldn't even call it slipping... what I do is have clutch right at friction point,just as car starts to move, and leave it there, . Heel toe to increase rpm by a few hundred, then QUICKLY slid foot off brake to throttle pedal as you are fully engaging the clutch. Then increase throttle to accelerate away. Hope that helps
Practice in a parking lot moving from a complete stop without touching throttle pedal at all, if that will help you get familiar with the friction point...
[ April 06, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
Jason has given you some good advice.
I think my advice is about the same advice given a different way.
There are three major factors control wear of the clutch friction surface.
1. How long you slip the clutch.
2. The difference in speed (rpm) between the flywheel and friction disk.
3. The amount of torque you are transmitting through the clutch while it is slipping.
You want to minimize all three.
Like Jason said, when you start out, engage the clutch at low rpm, don't rev the engine unecessarily before you let the peddle up.
Let it out quickly. As quickly as you can without jerking the car or killing the engine.
Don't apply any more throttle than yuou absolutely need until the pedal is all the way up. Applying unecessary power while the clutch it slipping wears it fast.
When you up shift, time you shifts so that the engine speed matches when you let the clutch out in the next higher gear. With practice, those will be quick smooth shifts. Any jerk when you let the clutch out after a shift tells you that engine rpm wasn't right and it wears the clutch.
When you down shift for engine braking going down along grade, pause briefly in neutral and rev the engine to the speed it will be going in the next gear -before- you let the clutch out. Proper shifting puts essentially no wear on the clucth disk.
To save you throwout bearing. Put the transmission into neutral and let the pedal up. It may be safest to wait until the car behind you has stopped in case you have to move quickly.
I think my advice is about the same advice given a different way.
There are three major factors control wear of the clutch friction surface.
1. How long you slip the clutch.
2. The difference in speed (rpm) between the flywheel and friction disk.
3. The amount of torque you are transmitting through the clutch while it is slipping.
You want to minimize all three.
Like Jason said, when you start out, engage the clutch at low rpm, don't rev the engine unecessarily before you let the peddle up.
Let it out quickly. As quickly as you can without jerking the car or killing the engine.
Don't apply any more throttle than yuou absolutely need until the pedal is all the way up. Applying unecessary power while the clutch it slipping wears it fast.
When you up shift, time you shifts so that the engine speed matches when you let the clutch out in the next higher gear. With practice, those will be quick smooth shifts. Any jerk when you let the clutch out after a shift tells you that engine rpm wasn't right and it wears the clutch.
When you down shift for engine braking going down along grade, pause briefly in neutral and rev the engine to the speed it will be going in the next gear -before- you let the clutch out. Proper shifting puts essentially no wear on the clucth disk.
To save you throwout bearing. Put the transmission into neutral and let the pedal up. It may be safest to wait until the car behind you has stopped in case you have to move quickly.
What ever happened to the method of using the parking brake, set the parking brake, when ready to proceed; give it some gas and let out the clutch and release the parking brake in a coordinated effort.
I work on timing and being familiar with my truck and car. I will quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas, giving it just enough gas to supply the torque demanded as I let the clutch out just in time. I can always fall back on the parking brake trick if I need to. Handy on a steep hill when some cretin pulls up about 6'' behind you.
Some engines just aren't happy about being asked to supply too much torque at low RPM. The worst thing I ever owned was a 68 Chevelle 307 V-8 and 3 on the tree. I think the most miserable thing I ever drove was a 78 Dodge my dad had with a 4 on the floor. It had a relatively high, narrow torque band. My mother could hardly drive it and felt it was her fault.
Some engines just aren't happy about being asked to supply too much torque at low RPM. The worst thing I ever owned was a 68 Chevelle 307 V-8 and 3 on the tree. I think the most miserable thing I ever drove was a 78 Dodge my dad had with a 4 on the floor. It had a relatively high, narrow torque band. My mother could hardly drive it and felt it was her fault.
Like my Toyota Corolla! It has no torque
I think Toyotas and Hondas are famous for no torque at low RPMs.
Best way to make clutch last longer than engine? Only use it to get started in 1st gear, after that, you don't need it. There's a graceful way to do this and there are other ways, I'm talking about the former. Clutch cable snapped on my Dad's Olds Omega (what a pile that was). We lived 16 miles from the dealer he wanted to take it to. Made it there just fine with any grinding. Funnies part is, he still can't figure out how I did it.
I had a Rockwell 10 speed in a '93 Freightliner, man that thing was smooth.
Dave
Best way to make clutch last longer than engine? Only use it to get started in 1st gear, after that, you don't need it. There's a graceful way to do this and there are other ways, I'm talking about the former. Clutch cable snapped on my Dad's Olds Omega (what a pile that was). We lived 16 miles from the dealer he wanted to take it to. Made it there just fine with any grinding. Funnies part is, he still can't figure out how I did it.
I had a Rockwell 10 speed in a '93 Freightliner, man that thing was smooth.
Dave
When I was teaching my son to drive, he was doing fairly well, but then went downhill. Finally when he couldn't even start it, without it jumping ahead, I knew the @##$(*&^%$@#$*&^%$ hydraulic clutch had gone out again. I took over. We only had a couple of miles, but with a bunch of stop signs and a state highway to cross. Those were lessons he wasn't ready for.
Strange, I have rebuilt the both the clutch master and slave cylinders countless times, but never the brake master cylinder.
Note, he took drivers ed in school. Watching him drive confirmed his opinion the course was useless. By the time my daughter was old enough, it was over $300. We skipped it.
Strange, I have rebuilt the both the clutch master and slave cylinders countless times, but never the brake master cylinder.
Note, he took drivers ed in school. Watching him drive confirmed his opinion the course was useless. By the time my daughter was old enough, it was over $300. We skipped it.
my brother and i learned to drive a manual transmission by riding motorcycles. we both rode dirt bikes, and dad reinforced us on street bikes.
both of us are very smooth shifters, although i don't drive a stick now due to an ankle condition.
both of us are very smooth shifters, although i don't drive a stick now due to an ankle condition.
Are you using clutch fluid in it or brake fluid?
I am using the brake fluid the owners' manual specified. It is a 77.
Big diesels have a narrow band to shift (pretty well a single target rpm to "pull out" and another, lower, one to "put in". They're all different [Cats wind down so slowly you can pour a cup of coffee, a Series 60 Detroit is more like a FE Ford; Cummins seemed to sort of split the difference on the modern engines). Clutch is used only to start, pretty much, and one learns to feel ones way through a non-synchro transmission over some time. May take 3-5 years to become acceptable, and nearly a lifetime (in some cases) to never miss a shift. (Unless one is named Herb McCandless: born with the right genes). The rest of us learn -- hopefully -- how to miss a shift and not have to [no joke] pull to the side of the road to start over. "Finding" a gear has real meaning with 70-80,000 lbs on a 6% downgrade. The brakes can't hold it.
If one prefers to use the clutch, the action is short and sweet. Unless you've got 100-miles from Houston to Huntsville on Friday evening in stop-and-go traffic. Then it's foot to the floor every time, and trying -- literally -- to avoid cramping. 1700-1900 ft/lbs torque takes one helluva clutch.
Turn off the radio, crack the window, and listen for what it wants. Sound and feel will go a long way in helping. Make you a far better driver, too, if you never accept sacrificing the clutch to existing road/traffic conditions.
Timing is everything in driving well. And a tremendous pleasure to problem-solve EVERY day one drives.
If one prefers to use the clutch, the action is short and sweet. Unless you've got 100-miles from Houston to Huntsville on Friday evening in stop-and-go traffic. Then it's foot to the floor every time, and trying -- literally -- to avoid cramping. 1700-1900 ft/lbs torque takes one helluva clutch.
Turn off the radio, crack the window, and listen for what it wants. Sound and feel will go a long way in helping. Make you a far better driver, too, if you never accept sacrificing the clutch to existing road/traffic conditions.
Timing is everything in driving well. And a tremendous pleasure to problem-solve EVERY day one drives.
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