Best Way To Rust-Proof?

[AMC]

Rjundi, We are talking about oil based rust proofing not rubberized undercoating or any type of paint. None of the rust proofings we are talking about here are thick enough or have enough film strength actually plug up a drain hole. I have also seen plenty of new cars starting to rust heavily when their owners dont wash them enough. Sure newer cars are better than the old ones when it comes to rust resistance but they still are not good enough for most of us here.

Demar, I am glad to hear you have such good results and you live in a similar (or worse) climate than me. The amsoil will probably go on my dad's wrangler on sunday, I am looking forward to it.

 

[sciphi]

Using FF, Carwell/Krown or Amsoil HDMP is worlds better than doing nothing at all. I'd rather get all greasy tearing into the car than battle a rusted fastener in a tight spot.

 

[doitmyself]

Both the Krown and Rust Check products are VERY thin, almost water-like.

I simply cannot comprehend how they can provide any lasting protection on the exposed-to-weather areas.

Anyone have a clue?

 

[JHZR2]

Simple - they have some stick or cling to them.

No different than if you let a piece of paper "stick" to the side of the car by static, or had a sticker stuck to the car. Same coverage, on stays and the other does not.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Simple - they have some stick or cling to them.

No different than if you let a piece of paper "stick" to the side of the car by static, or had a sticker stuck to the car. Same coverage, on stays and the other does not.


HMMMMMM....you seem to have a theme in your posts here.

The Fluid Film participants are taking the "logical" direction that a thicker, more viscous product will result in longevity in the wash exposed areas. You, JHZR2, are advocating that the Krown type products, even though water-like at application, have more tenacity in maintaining a thin film of protection, at least until the next annual application.

It goes against our natural thought pattern. What's your confidence level (experience) regarding this?

I ask, because I am a day away from caving in to a Krown treatment, but am still apprehensive regarding it's cost/benefit value. My old Caravan had rust bubbles in the fold seams at year 6 and major rocker panel perforation at age 9.

Thanks for the input! Interesting thread. I am simply not up to diy this time....too many irons in the fire.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Simple - they have some stick or cling to them.

No different than if you let a piece of paper "stick" to the side of the car by static, or had a sticker stuck to the car. Same coverage, on stays and the other does not.


HMMMMMM....you seem to have a theme in your posts here.

The Fluid Film participants are taking the "logical" direction that a thicker, more viscous product will result in longevity in the wash exposed areas. You, JHZR2, are advocating that the Krown type products, even though water-like at application, have more tenacity in maintaining a thin film of protection, at least until the next annual application.

It goes against our natural thought pattern. What's your confidence level (experience) regarding this?

I ask, because I am a day away from caving in to a Krown treatment, but am still apprehensive regarding it's cost/benefit value. My old Caravan had rust bubbles in the fold seams at year 6 and major rocker panel perforation at age 9.

Thanks for the input! Interesting thread. I am simply not up to diy this time....too many irons in the fire.


it's worth every penny in my opinion

 

[Vikas]

My experience with Ziebart was BAD; It actually trapped the water inside and rusted more.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn

Simple - they have some stick or cling to them.

You, JHZR2, are advocating that the Krown type products, even though water-like at application, have more tenacity in maintaining a thin film of protection, at least until the next annual application.

It goes against our natural thought pattern. What's your confidence level (experience)


Bingo, TENACITY and a fluid's ability to cling and not rinse away are the key to durability in this application! It really doesn't matter how the rust proofer applies so long as it can hang on long term and not get rinsed off. Both Corrosion X Heavy Duty and Amsoil HDMP go on thinner than fluid film but they resist rinsing away better because of how they are forumlated, with then end result being more tenacity and/or a stronger grip to the surfaces and thus, better long term durability.

Obviously, there are alot of other properties a good rust proofer has to have but they really dont matter much if the coating simply rinses away the first time you drive through the rain.....

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Simple - they have some stick or cling to them.

No different than if you let a piece of paper "stick" to the side of the car by static, or had a sticker stuck to the car. Same coverage, on stays and the other does not.


HMMMMMM....you seem to have a theme in your posts here.

The Fluid Film participants are taking the "logical" direction that a thicker, more viscous product will result in longevity in the wash exposed areas. You, JHZR2, are advocating that the Krown type products, even though water-like at application, have more tenacity in maintaining a thin film of protection, at least until the next annual application.

It goes against our natural thought pattern. What's your confidence level (experience) regarding this?

I ask, because I am a day away from caving in to a Krown treatment, but am still apprehensive regarding it's cost/benefit value. My old Caravan had rust bubbles in the fold seams at year 6 and major rocker panel perforation at age 9.

Thanks for the input! Interesting thread. I am simply not up to diy this time....too many irons in the fire.


Dont take what I'm saying as anti-fluid film; I'm not and it is a fine product.

But do realize that ff and krown are different products, with different compositions and that deal differently with certain spray/wash conditions.

My experience with krown/carwell can be seen here:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/the-side-effect-of-rustproofing.176454/

IMO you need to think about it another way.

You need to go beyond the concept of the bulk doing any real rustproofing, to the inhibitor chemistry and other additives. Remember that while oil supposedly protects against rust, even the cheapest lube oil has rust and oxidation add packs. A purpose-built corrosion inhibitor will have a good balance of tackifier (think bar and chain oil) and mobility to
resist wash off, plus have purpose specific chemistry to inhibit.

I used the example before of adhesives, but think about spraying bar and chain oil or 20w-50, which ought to last better?

A thicker coating may just make something more succeptible to being hit and perturbed by high velocity water droplets. That may well erode the coating. A product not made to "stick" may well still impregnate the pores, but it doesn't mean that it will stay on the surface. A product made to stick may befar more tenacious.

Any engineering substance has a trade of properties. Rustproofing is no different, and also has its balance of what to use and why.

Just because you don't see something doesn't mean that it isnt there.
Thin films with tenacious grasp may last longer and resist washout.

I don't think you can go wrong with krown.

And I highly doubt that mixing approaches is a harmful thing. So I don't think you can go wrong even overlapping approaches.

Good luck, hope this made sense.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
[
And I highly doubt that mixing approaches is a harmful thing. So I don't think you can go wrong even overlapping approaches.

Good luck, hope this made sense.



do you overlap or just do krown? I have one vehicle I rustcheck but want to get a gun do it myself on several vehicles.

 

[JHZR2]

I've just done krown. But for vehicles with a waxy coating, say, LPS3, amsoil HDMP, waxoyl, etc, no matter how "self healing", they claim, a more mobile, liquid topper would be sound. I have waxoyl under my 300cd, and plan to do exactly this.

 

[rjundi]

My wife never I mean never washed her 96 Civic and drove it 11yrs/180k miles. The paint was faded a bit however it did not have an ounce of rust on perforating anywhere.

She even parked it 30' off the ocean at her summer place(fisherman shack) in Gloucester MA for 4 years and it did not bother it. Maybe Honda figured something out.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
My wife never I mean never washed her 96 Civic and drove it 11yrs/180k miles. The paint was faded a bit however it did not have an ounce of rust on perforating anywhere.

She even parked it 30' off the ocean at her summer place(fisherman shack) in Gloucester MA for 4 years and it did not bother it. Maybe Honda figured something out.


How was it underneath?

 

[Kestas]

11 years is a piece of cake. My experience shows rust will start on a well-groomed and rustproofed car after 15 years. It'll start where the rustproof ends, on the edges of Class A finish panels - and at rock dings, scrapes, and other imperfections in the panels.

I've also watched how my lanolin-based rustproofing ages. After about eight years, the rustproofing hardens and delaminates from the surface. You can scrape off the chunks before rerustproofing.

Also, in high-wash areas, a lot of sand sticks to the old rustproofing areas. The combination of wicking the rustproofing and mechanical action erode the rutproofing until it is gone.

This is why reapplication is important to keep rust away. Though typically the average owner loses interest in their car after a while and just lets it go.

 

[doitmyself]

Thanks everyone for the discussion. JHZR2, you put some of my fears to sleep, maybe.

I had my car Krowned in Windsor yesterday. The shop personnel seemed friendly and attentive. The applicator guy actually spoke to me prior to the process and explained all the details he goes through. They instilled confidence.

However, there was one problem I am annoyed about. He had some kind of difficulty drilling about 6 of the rocker panel access holes and the plastic plugs he installed fit rather loose. I brought this to their attention and they replaced the plugs with over-sized ones (only the "nipple" was over sized). Problem solved, but it did invoke the buyer's remorse feeling for a few moments. I'm plenty old enough to accept that problems occur sometimes, but this was certainly a lapse in quality control. The vehicle appears to be well covered in my inspection.

I asked the manager about the thinness of their T-40 product and his story was that after a few months and the underside appears dry, there is still a film present doing it's job.

Still not sure about the cost/value of this service. I only keep one car (daily driver) and at 10 years +/-, I try to determine when to sell them to get best price vs. the cost of upcoming major maintenance, further depreciation, etc.. This is MY experience for MY conditions.

It kind of seems like rust proofing is similar to extended warranties. It may or may not pan out. We simply cannot predict the future.

And, from my observation of many vehicles in mid-Michigan, it seems that corrosion control across product lines is not consistent.

That 13% Ontario sales tax is a killer.

 

[FXjohn]

as far as the rockers go, most of the problem is water and moisture can't drain. I don't know why the manufacturers leave sealed sections like that on vehicles. it's the same way on cab corners and truck bed wheel arches. there are places in ft wayne and south bend who do rustcheck, no border involved. I do like krown a lot though. as time goes by you'll be a believer in rustproofing.

 

[doitmyself]

FXjohn, I took my '05 ('04)Caravan to the Fort Wayne Rust Check in year 7 to attempt to slow down rust that had already shown up in the pinch seams of the hood, doors and tailgate. I was sick about this and blamed Daimler for cheapening Chrysler

.

I think this might have slowed this seam rust, but my rocker panels disintegrated over this past winter and I saw no sign of any oil inside them.

The Rust Check was the same price as Krown, after crossing fees, tax, etc..

My Caravan rocker panel at 9+ years. Washed, babied, Zaino freak. Disheartening.

 

[cb450sc]

I hear you doityourself. We are way overtaxed in Ontario and our provincial and federal governments continue to spend money that they do not have.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
FXjohn, I took my '05 ('04)Caravan to the Fort Wayne Rust Check in year 7 to attempt to slow down rust that had already shown up in the pinch seams of the hood, doors and tailgate. I was sick about this and blamed Daimler for cheapening Chrysler

.

I think this might have slowed this seam rust, but my rocker panels disintegrated over this past winter and I saw no sign of any oil inside them.

The Rust Check was the same price as Krown, after crossing fees, tax, etc..

My Caravan rocker panel at 9+ years. Washed, babied, Zaino freak. Disheartening.

you only did one rustcheck? I knew a guy who had a full size pontiac wagon with pinholes. he rustchecked it every year and it never got any worse. On my old S-10 I just cut the rocker panels off and did flat black rustoleum. It looked pretty clean.

 

[doitmyself]

My bad. I actually Rust Checked it the next year(8)also. I believe that it may have retarded the pinch seam rust and prevented perforation on the doors, etc..

In year 9+, I skipped it since I deemed it prudent to sell the van and get another vehicle. As said above, I only run one vehicle and I attempt to sell them at the point where I can maximize the sale value vs. the cost of upcoming known (and potential unknown) maintenance. With only one vehicle, I also need to maintain a certain level of dependability.