Hi guys. I recently got a 2002 Russian-made Lada Niva with 1.7L carbureted engine with 90k kms from a friend for cheap. It was primarily used for long trips (500+ kms one way twice a week) but since he bought another car he didn't use it as much so he didn't change the oil for at least 3 years (!!!) and rarely used since then. When I got it I drained the oil and it was pitch black like in a diesel. I put Total Quartz 15W40 ACEA A3/B3 and called it a day. It had a timing chain rattle for quite some time so I didn't want to risk it so I decided to change it. Valve stem seals have seen better days too, after idling for a minute and shutting off, next restart makes a puff of blue smoke and oil smell otherwise I didn't notice oil consumption. When I opened the valve cover everything was pitch black like tar and on the rocker and cams there was black grease (or sludge). After timing chain replacement I thought that the oil should clean it somewhat out or will it? I thought is it a good idea to use some engine flush (Liqui Moly engine flush readily available) or add a quart or two of diesel to the sump capacity (kerosene not really available here) and let it idle for 15 minutes and draining it. Why should I choose liqui moly over plain diesel? Thanks
Best way to clean out a gunked Lada engine??
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What are the oil specs requirements for the engine?
I'd suggest Rotella or reputable diesel engine oil with short OCIs. You could try adding kerosene to oil and let it idle (no driving) for 10-15 mins or so and drain the loosened up gunk.
I'd suggest Rotella or reputable diesel engine oil with short OCIs. You could try adding kerosene to oil and let it idle (no driving) for 10-15 mins or so and drain the loosened up gunk.
If you do the diesel thing, just run it at idle for 15min.
I would probably remove everything you can scrape out first, and maybe plan on conservative oil changes(shorter) until you have most of the sludge removed.
How much gunk/sludge the engine oil will dissolve and remove really depends on the engine and I'm not familiar with your vehicle.
I would probably remove everything you can scrape out first, and maybe plan on conservative oil changes(shorter) until you have most of the sludge removed.
How much gunk/sludge the engine oil will dissolve and remove really depends on the engine and I'm not familiar with your vehicle.
When using a diesel flush, the problem is the oil pickup screen could clog, starving the oil pump. The above suggestion of scrapping as much as you can get to from the top of the engine and crankcase is the best approach. If there is an oil pressure gauge watch it during flush for clogging. If it is only an oil warning light shut the engine on the first flicker of the light. You will be idling which is the lowest pump pressure but also the least strain on bearing
Pull and rebuild. If you want to flush you chance all kinds of problems. Don't want to spend money go with conventional oil, top off when needed and run 3k oil changes.
Any photos of the valvetrain?
Originally Posted by dubber09
What are the oil specs requirements for the engine?
I'd suggest Rotella or reputable diesel engine oil with short OCIs. You could try adding kerosene to oil and let it idle (no driving) for 10-15 mins or so and drain the loosened up gunk.
Well, the engine is a 60s design so anything slippery will do it (JK). I think it's API SG, the oil I put in is SL.
Originally Posted by Rand
If you do the diesel thing, just run it at idle for 15min.
I would probably remove everything you can scrape out first, and maybe plan on conservative oil changes(shorter) until you have most of the sludge removed.
How much gunk/sludge the engine oil will dissolve and remove really depends on the engine and I'm not familiar with your vehicle.
I tried to remove by rubbing with a rag, most of the soft sludge is gone but everything is still black, good thing there isn't any hardened sludge.
Yes, I was planning to go a short OCI like 1k miles or so.
Originally Posted by irad
When using a diesel flush, the problem is the oil pickup screen could clog, starving the oil pump. The above suggestion of scrapping as much as you can get to from the top of the engine and crankcase is the best approach. If there is an oil pressure gauge watch it during flush for clogging. If it is only an oil warning light shut the engine on the first flicker of the light. You will be idling which is the lowest pump pressure but also the least strain on bearing
Won't the diesel dissolve it and unclog? When the engine gets hot from extended running, when I reduce idle speed to like 500 rpm the oil light flickers so I hope it's the pickup clogged and not the bearings since it doesn't rattle or knock. Oil light goes out very fast when cold or hot starting, even before I released the key.It revs fine to 6k and doesn't make any abnormal sounds wether flooring it at 6k or idling with the oil light flickering at 400-500 rpm. I increased the idle speed afterwards to 800 rpm.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Pull and rebuild. If you want to flush you chance all kinds of problems. Don't want to spend money go with conventional oil, top off when needed and run 3k oil changes.
Nah, I'll try indirect cleaning first, compression is almost as good as a new engine and the same between all four cylinders.
Originally Posted by oliveoil
Any photos of the valvetrain?
Sadly, I didn't take any when I had it apart. I can try to take a photo from the oil filler hole, looks nasty inside.
Oil on the dipstick is still clear but it already started to darken after only 20 miles of service, the color I'm talking about isn't a brown shade but a black shade, the same it would be if you put new oil in a diesel and the soot makes it black really fast.
I'm started to think the previous owner put used tractor oil since when draining it felt on my hand the same as SAE 30 everyone is using here for tractors.
Thanks to everyone, much appreciated!
What are the oil specs requirements for the engine?
I'd suggest Rotella or reputable diesel engine oil with short OCIs. You could try adding kerosene to oil and let it idle (no driving) for 10-15 mins or so and drain the loosened up gunk.
Well, the engine is a 60s design so anything slippery will do it (JK). I think it's API SG, the oil I put in is SL.
Originally Posted by Rand
If you do the diesel thing, just run it at idle for 15min.
I would probably remove everything you can scrape out first, and maybe plan on conservative oil changes(shorter) until you have most of the sludge removed.
How much gunk/sludge the engine oil will dissolve and remove really depends on the engine and I'm not familiar with your vehicle.
I tried to remove by rubbing with a rag, most of the soft sludge is gone but everything is still black, good thing there isn't any hardened sludge.
Yes, I was planning to go a short OCI like 1k miles or so.
Originally Posted by irad
When using a diesel flush, the problem is the oil pickup screen could clog, starving the oil pump. The above suggestion of scrapping as much as you can get to from the top of the engine and crankcase is the best approach. If there is an oil pressure gauge watch it during flush for clogging. If it is only an oil warning light shut the engine on the first flicker of the light. You will be idling which is the lowest pump pressure but also the least strain on bearing
Won't the diesel dissolve it and unclog? When the engine gets hot from extended running, when I reduce idle speed to like 500 rpm the oil light flickers so I hope it's the pickup clogged and not the bearings since it doesn't rattle or knock. Oil light goes out very fast when cold or hot starting, even before I released the key.It revs fine to 6k and doesn't make any abnormal sounds wether flooring it at 6k or idling with the oil light flickering at 400-500 rpm. I increased the idle speed afterwards to 800 rpm.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Pull and rebuild. If you want to flush you chance all kinds of problems. Don't want to spend money go with conventional oil, top off when needed and run 3k oil changes.
Nah, I'll try indirect cleaning first, compression is almost as good as a new engine and the same between all four cylinders.
Originally Posted by oliveoil
Any photos of the valvetrain?
Sadly, I didn't take any when I had it apart. I can try to take a photo from the oil filler hole, looks nasty inside.
Oil on the dipstick is still clear but it already started to darken after only 20 miles of service, the color I'm talking about isn't a brown shade but a black shade, the same it would be if you put new oil in a diesel and the soot makes it black really fast.
I'm started to think the previous owner put used tractor oil since when draining it felt on my hand the same as SAE 30 everyone is using here for tractors.
Thanks to everyone, much appreciated!
How difficult is it to remove the oil pan? That and/or a diesel flush . Biggest danger is a clogged pick up screen. Simplest would be short intervals of HDEO maybe helped by adding 1/2 litre of diesel just a day or 2 before oil drain. Please post results. Thank you in advance.
True the diesel should dissolve gunk on the pickup screen. But there is the chance that gunk will fall into the pan and clog the screen before the diesel breaks it down. What you can do is run it with some diesel fuel. Then drain the oil. Refill the crankcase with 100% diesel fuel. Do not run the engine. Let it sit over night and then drain the diesel fuel. Next fill with oil and new filter. Keep the oci short. The idea is the overnight soak will clean the screen. I did this once on a 1976 Mercedes. The oil pressure was better but I still dropped the pan a few months later and cleaned the screen.
Take it apart and clean it manually. Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Can you get Shell Rimula R4 X?
+1
If you can find Shell Rimula R4X in Serbia, it's a very good oil, Mineral 15W-40 HDEO, TBN of 10.5 and Sulphated ash of 1.45 which indicate a very good dose a of detergents and dispersants.
I have used it myself and have recommended it to friends, in my personal experience it is very good at cleaning, and it even reduced oil consumption and leaking in my engines.
It's not an expensive oil either so you can afford to change it often.
Another good oil would be Mobil Delvac MX.
Can you get Shell Rimula R4 X?
+1
If you can find Shell Rimula R4X in Serbia, it's a very good oil, Mineral 15W-40 HDEO, TBN of 10.5 and Sulphated ash of 1.45 which indicate a very good dose a of detergents and dispersants.
I have used it myself and have recommended it to friends, in my personal experience it is very good at cleaning, and it even reduced oil consumption and leaking in my engines.
It's not an expensive oil either so you can afford to change it often.
Another good oil would be Mobil Delvac MX.
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Russian standard vodka?
"Like dissolves like" - Chemistry 101.
Diesel is an outstanding solvent for this situation and why it has been used for that for more than a lifetime, and why it or kerosene is one of the main things people use in parts washers. This is a great application of it, no hardened briquets of carbon to give worry to clogging. I had this same situation with a neglected in engine in an Acura a few years ago. Kerosene/diesel worked wonders. I would actually do it twice in this case. I have seen much longer idle times in order to treat stubborn gases (hours, even).
If you can easily open the valve cover again, a good move is to take a paint brush and "paint" the inside with warm diesel. This will remove a ton of deposits and let it drain out of the engine before you fill with oil to do the flush. It will make the flush much more effective.
If you can find, and if you want to spend the money on this car, a synthetic oil with ester content, it may helpf condition the valve seals and stop the smoking. I have had success with that (on the same Acura, as well as others).
Diesel is an outstanding solvent for this situation and why it has been used for that for more than a lifetime, and why it or kerosene is one of the main things people use in parts washers. This is a great application of it, no hardened briquets of carbon to give worry to clogging. I had this same situation with a neglected in engine in an Acura a few years ago. Kerosene/diesel worked wonders. I would actually do it twice in this case. I have seen much longer idle times in order to treat stubborn gases (hours, even).
If you can easily open the valve cover again, a good move is to take a paint brush and "paint" the inside with warm diesel. This will remove a ton of deposits and let it drain out of the engine before you fill with oil to do the flush. It will make the flush much more effective.
If you can find, and if you want to spend the money on this car, a synthetic oil with ester content, it may helpf condition the valve seals and stop the smoking. I have had success with that (on the same Acura, as well as others).
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Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2038507/2
If your going to call me names at least have manners to spell Yankee right.
Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2038507/2
If your going to call me names at least have manners to spell Yankee right.
10%...thats too much...
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2038507/2
If your going to call me names at least have manners to spell Yankee right.
Originally Posted by beast3300
Just change your engine oil at a reasonable OCI and your engine will be clean. And if it's dirty, it will clean up in time.
I did what beast3300 said in the linked post. I did use some Marvel Mystery Oil in the last 500 miles in the OCI. I went with 3000 mile OCI for maybe 18 months. Then switched to synthetic oils. Today the Ranger has the quietest running engine in a Walmart parking lot.
Sludge forms one molecule at a time. You can safely remove it one or two molecules at a time.
The Ranger seemed to ping a lot on HDEO so just stuck with 5W30.
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by dave1251
Diesel is a terrible solvent and even a poor lubricant.
Yes, I just watched a YouTube video of a guy who showed the damage done to bearings when diesel is added to the oil.
Yes...because you Yenkees are often overexaggerating...you have to put a 1/4 or a 1/2 pint of diesel (1-2 dcl)...per normal engine...not a quart or two (1-2L)...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2038507/2
If your going to call me names at least have manners to spell Yankee right.
Originally Posted by beast3300
Just change your engine oil at a reasonable OCI and your engine will be clean. And if it's dirty, it will clean up in time.
I did what beast3300 said in the linked post. I did use some Marvel Mystery Oil in the last 500 miles in the OCI. I went with 3000 mile OCI for maybe 18 months. Then switched to synthetic oils. Today the Ranger has the quietest running engine in a Walmart parking lot.
Sludge forms one molecule at a time. You can safely remove it one or two molecules at a time.
The Ranger seemed to ping a lot on HDEO so just stuck with 5W30.
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I'd just continue running a quality 15w40 and filter for a 3,000 mile oci. Let the oil do the work slowly
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