I have no idea what effect it has had on oil consumption, but OCD that I am, the oil changes in my '08 Prius have averaged 3752 miles. I've used mostly NAPA synthetic 5W30 or Synpower in the same grade. There has never been a visible level change on the stick during these intervals. It is currently coming up on 105,000 miles and my commute is long enough, combined with weekend trips to prevent any fuel dilution or gas replacing oil to maintain the level. Frankly, this thread is the first I've heard of Prii oil consumption! In my 40 years of close dealing with Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, and Ford, none of them will give you the time of day re oil consumption unless you're below 1000 miles per quart. Keep an eye on it or pick one of the solutions mentioned here. It will be fun to see what happens.
Best oil to keep rings clean?
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troberts, do a google search. Youll find lots of threads out there on the issue, many right here on BITOG.
https://www.google.com/#q=prius+burning+oil
I started the thread with the intentions of getting recommendations on oils that have known (whatever factor) that contributes to keeping the rings/ring lands clean. 1/4qt of oil consumption in my case is so minute, I dont even let it bug me. The fact remains, that time marches on and I drive about 2000 miles monthly. Soon, I will be over the 100k mark and marching on. I may eventually be faced with the oil burning (1qt per 1000 miles) that many other Prius owners are faced with. Just trying to combat that, thats all.
Lots of good recommendations here. In my last vehicle, I used Valvoline Synpower from the day I bought it in 2004, until I sold it in 2012. In spite of having put 167,000 miles on it in that time, it never consumed oil. When I had to replace the valve cover gasket I was surprised how clean it was.
Any thoughts on Synpower to achieve the maximum possibility of keeping the rings clean?
https://www.google.com/#q=prius+burning+oil
I started the thread with the intentions of getting recommendations on oils that have known (whatever factor) that contributes to keeping the rings/ring lands clean. 1/4qt of oil consumption in my case is so minute, I dont even let it bug me. The fact remains, that time marches on and I drive about 2000 miles monthly. Soon, I will be over the 100k mark and marching on. I may eventually be faced with the oil burning (1qt per 1000 miles) that many other Prius owners are faced with. Just trying to combat that, thats all.
Lots of good recommendations here. In my last vehicle, I used Valvoline Synpower from the day I bought it in 2004, until I sold it in 2012. In spite of having put 167,000 miles on it in that time, it never consumed oil. When I had to replace the valve cover gasket I was surprised how clean it was.
Any thoughts on Synpower to achieve the maximum possibility of keeping the rings clean?
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
You say Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy will lead to gumming as if it's an absolute.
That's asinine. Give me a break.
I agree come on ARCO in decades i've never had gumming from M1
can you provide a link showing this lead to gumming in your engine because of higher viscosity?.
It's well known in the industry the higher % vii in the formulation lead to gumming, varnish and stuck rings.
Come on, fanboys with your faux synthetics and propped up VI - your oil choice isn't ne plus ultra, not since the trisyn formula went bye bye years ago.
Post a link showing all these gummed up engines and there documents showing the test results??
because my real world testing begs to differ from what your saying.
Arco can't. We all know this.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
You say Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy will lead to gumming as if it's an absolute.
That's asinine. Give me a break.
I agree come on ARCO in decades i've never had gumming from M1
can you provide a link showing this lead to gumming in your engine because of higher viscosity?.
It's well known in the industry the higher % vii in the formulation lead to gumming, varnish and stuck rings.
Come on, fanboys with your faux synthetics and propped up VI - your oil choice isn't ne plus ultra, not since the trisyn formula went bye bye years ago.
Post a link showing all these gummed up engines and there documents showing the test results??
because my real world testing begs to differ from what your saying.
Arco can't. We all know this.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
It's well known in the industry the higher % vii in the formulation lead to gumming, varnish and stuck rings.
Come on, fanboys with your faux synthetics and propped up VI - your oil choice isn't ne plus ultra, not since the trisyn formula went bye bye years ago.
I'm only a fanboy of facts, ARCO. I'm surprised you didn't recommend an ATV oil or something.
Oh, yeah if you run hard run ATV or motorbike oil
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
It's well known in the industry the higher % vii in the formulation lead to gumming, varnish and stuck rings.
Come on, fanboys with your faux synthetics and propped up VI - your oil choice isn't ne plus ultra, not since the trisyn formula went bye bye years ago.
I'm only a fanboy of facts, ARCO. I'm surprised you didn't recommend an ATV oil or something.
Oh, yeah if you run hard run ATV or motorbike oil
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Lubener
You can spend a couple grand to rebuild your engine or add 1/4 quart per 3000 miles.
The best option is neither. On a 3000 mile OCI, 1/4 quart is meaningless. And with the taxis, nothing was added unless it was 1/2 quart or more down. 1/4 quart in 3000 miles isn't an engine issue, it's an OCD issue.
I'm guessing you were adding oil to those early 4.6 Fords every day... My '92 got between 600-800mi qt and didn't smoke badly, used to be a bunch of those around in taxi service that made mine look normal...
I repl the passenger side valve stem seals(plugs showed more oil/carbon than driver side)and consumption dropped to 1500-1700mi, was good enough for me... Sold it a year later and the half set of seals are still in the cabinet...
Originally Posted By: Lubener
You can spend a couple grand to rebuild your engine or add 1/4 quart per 3000 miles.
The best option is neither. On a 3000 mile OCI, 1/4 quart is meaningless. And with the taxis, nothing was added unless it was 1/2 quart or more down. 1/4 quart in 3000 miles isn't an engine issue, it's an OCD issue.
I'm guessing you were adding oil to those early 4.6 Fords every day... My '92 got between 600-800mi qt and didn't smoke badly, used to be a bunch of those around in taxi service that made mine look normal...
I repl the passenger side valve stem seals(plugs showed more oil/carbon than driver side)and consumption dropped to 1500-1700mi, was good enough for me... Sold it a year later and the half set of seals are still in the cabinet...
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I agree with you. I would do MMO/kreen piston soak before each oil change until the consumption goes away.
This.
Forgot to add, this is what worked for me in oil thirsty Corolla: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3098293/1
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I agree with you. I would do MMO/kreen piston soak before each oil change until the consumption goes away.
This.
Forgot to add, this is what worked for me in oil thirsty Corolla: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3098293/1
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
troberts, do a google search. Youll find lots of threads out there on the issue, many right here on BITOG.
https://www.google.com/#q=prius+burning+oil
Yap, the issue is real. What makes it puzzling, there is is no consumption in those Otto cycle toyota engines, but as soon as you switch them into Atkinson cycle, oil consumption somewhere at 100,000-150,000 miles. Since pistons and rings are different, my vote is on low tension oil rings.
troberts, do a google search. Youll find lots of threads out there on the issue, many right here on BITOG.
https://www.google.com/#q=prius+burning+oil
Yap, the issue is real. What makes it puzzling, there is is no consumption in those Otto cycle toyota engines, but as soon as you switch them into Atkinson cycle, oil consumption somewhere at 100,000-150,000 miles. Since pistons and rings are different, my vote is on low tension oil rings.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
daman said:Zaedock said:You say Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy will lead to gumming as if it's an absolute.
That's asinine. Give me a break.
...
because my real world testing begs to differ from what your saying.
Show ME your engine tear down pics with mass of accumulated deposits per piston /engine clocked hrs. v.s high approval technical IV/V synthetic
From TOMNJ May 2009:
PAOs and many Group IIIs are completely paraffinic and have virtually no polarity to dissolve degradation by-products. While they will breakdown more slowly than a Group I due to their superior thermal and oxidative stability, their solvency is so poor they just can't cope with polymeric degradation by-products and lay them down as deposits. Group I oils breakdown more quickly, but are better at cleaning up their own mess due to their higher polarity.
PAOs and many Group IIIs are completely paraffinic and have virtually no polarity to dissolve degradation by-products. While they will breakdown more slowly than a Group I due to their superior thermal and oxidative stability, their solvency is so poor they just can't cope with polymeric degradation by-products and lay them down as deposits. Group I oils breakdown more quickly, but are better at cleaning up their own mess due to their higher polarity.
By using that quote you have completely contradicted your previous post.
RATS, Friendly! Now I'll be wondering when the consumption will start to increase! Booooo....
Your theory re low tension rings makes sense, however. From all I've read about the design of the Prius, Toyota took great pains in the tiniest details to hit their fuel consumption target. I've been considering Maxlife, anyway, at over 100k. When my stash is gone, it might be time.....
Your theory re low tension rings makes sense, however. From all I've read about the design of the Prius, Toyota took great pains in the tiniest details to hit their fuel consumption target. I've been considering Maxlife, anyway, at over 100k. When my stash is gone, it might be time.....
Originally Posted By: TFB1
I'm guessing you were adding oil to those early 4.6 Fords every day... My '92 got between 600-800mi qt and didn't smoke badly, used to be a bunch of those around in taxi service that made mine look normal...
I was departing the industry as the 4.6 engines came on the scene and made it to the fleets. My brother was still doing it, and I'm not sure how his maintenance was going. I was usually with the Chevy small blocks and the Ford 302 engines.
Some engines took a top up every three days, others never took anything appreciable over the OCI. If I could have counted upon 1/4 quart per 3000 miles (which would have been 1/2 quart per 6000 mile OCI), I would have been jumping for joy.
I'm guessing you were adding oil to those early 4.6 Fords every day... My '92 got between 600-800mi qt and didn't smoke badly, used to be a bunch of those around in taxi service that made mine look normal...
I was departing the industry as the 4.6 engines came on the scene and made it to the fleets. My brother was still doing it, and I'm not sure how his maintenance was going. I was usually with the Chevy small blocks and the Ford 302 engines.
Some engines took a top up every three days, others never took anything appreciable over the OCI. If I could have counted upon 1/4 quart per 3000 miles (which would have been 1/2 quart per 6000 mile OCI), I would have been jumping for joy.
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Ive been using M1 products with the Prius, but have no loyalty - I will use whatever synthetic is available at Wal-mart or I can buy Amsoil as a local dealer lives nearby. What I dont want to do, is use M1 with high VI and even though the used oil analysis turn out nice, the ring lands are gumming up over time vs. using PU or Amsoil signature that wouldnt do the same.
I guess the new question is, knowing that M1 has viscosity improvers and those can increase gum/carbon on the rings, which oil has the least VI and has the most potential to keep the rings and lands the cleanest?
As far as I know, all multi-weight oils contain at least SOME VI Improver. It is also my understanding that, within an oil family, the wider the viscosity number gap, the more VI Improver is in the oil. IF the VI Improver is the root cause of this problem and you want to avoid using oil containing a larger amount of it, you should use 5w-20 instead of 0w-20 oil.
Also, I don't know if an oil's NOACK volatility has anything to do with this problem, but maybe using an oil with a lower NOACK number (like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra ) might be helpful.
I fully agree with what several others have already mentioned... burning only 1/4 qt of oil in 3000 miles you do NOT have a problem!
Ive been using M1 products with the Prius, but have no loyalty - I will use whatever synthetic is available at Wal-mart or I can buy Amsoil as a local dealer lives nearby. What I dont want to do, is use M1 with high VI and even though the used oil analysis turn out nice, the ring lands are gumming up over time vs. using PU or Amsoil signature that wouldnt do the same.
I guess the new question is, knowing that M1 has viscosity improvers and those can increase gum/carbon on the rings, which oil has the least VI and has the most potential to keep the rings and lands the cleanest?
As far as I know, all multi-weight oils contain at least SOME VI Improver. It is also my understanding that, within an oil family, the wider the viscosity number gap, the more VI Improver is in the oil. IF the VI Improver is the root cause of this problem and you want to avoid using oil containing a larger amount of it, you should use 5w-20 instead of 0w-20 oil.
Also, I don't know if an oil's NOACK volatility has anything to do with this problem, but maybe using an oil with a lower NOACK number (like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra ) might be helpful.
I fully agree with what several others have already mentioned... burning only 1/4 qt of oil in 3000 miles you do NOT have a problem!
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: wag123
As far as I know, all multi-weight oils contain at least SOME VI Improver.
Amsoil ACD (10w-30) is formulated without viscosity index improvers.
Aren't many of redline's engine oils also VII free
Originally Posted By: wag123
As far as I know, all multi-weight oils contain at least SOME VI Improver.
Amsoil ACD (10w-30) is formulated without viscosity index improvers.
Aren't many of redline's engine oils also VII free
Originally Posted By: Olas
Its not just the oil, fuel and driving habits play a part too.
Redline SI1, Shell fuel, long drives under heavy load to get it real hot, and Redline, Millers or Gulf Racing (All ester based with exceptional cleaning ability) changed on short intervals will keep your rings clean enough to eat off!
Now at 4 pages of replies and only one mention of using Group V oil for cleaning qualities.
Make that 2 posts.....
Its not just the oil, fuel and driving habits play a part too.
Redline SI1, Shell fuel, long drives under heavy load to get it real hot, and Redline, Millers or Gulf Racing (All ester based with exceptional cleaning ability) changed on short intervals will keep your rings clean enough to eat off!
Now at 4 pages of replies and only one mention of using Group V oil for cleaning qualities.
Make that 2 posts.....
Originally Posted By: dave1251
By using that quote you have completely contradicted your previous post.
IIRC I mentioned group iv/v base blend but pointing to potential weakneses of majority III based "pseudo-syn" oil. We "all" loved the AN/PAO/POE trisyn Mobil1 of long past - That formula would probably require pricing at 10 bucks a Qt.
By using that quote you have completely contradicted your previous post.
IIRC I mentioned group iv/v base blend but pointing to potential weakneses of majority III based "pseudo-syn" oil. We "all" loved the AN/PAO/POE trisyn Mobil1 of long past - That formula would probably require pricing at 10 bucks a Qt.
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Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Conventional oil of your choice + MMO for a 3,000 mile OCI ... Then drain and fill with a synthetic oil of your choice that meets Dexos 1 and run for 7500 mile OCI's .
Not a bad idea. However, according to the lubrizol interactive tool, Dexos 2 and some newer standards from VW or MB are even more stringent on piston deposits than dexos 1.
http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/orig...p/pc/index.html
Conventional oil of your choice + MMO for a 3,000 mile OCI ... Then drain and fill with a synthetic oil of your choice that meets Dexos 1 and run for 7500 mile OCI's .
Not a bad idea. However, according to the lubrizol interactive tool, Dexos 2 and some newer standards from VW or MB are even more stringent on piston deposits than dexos 1.
http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/orig...p/pc/index.html
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: dave1251
By using that quote you have completely contradicted your previous post.
IIRC I mentioned group iv/v base blend but pointing to potential weakneses of majority III based "pseudo-syn" oil. We "all" loved the AN/PAO/POE trisyn Mobil1 of long past - That formula would probably require pricing at 10 bucks a Qt.
However today's M1 is the best I have used in the 38 years I have used the products.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
By using that quote you have completely contradicted your previous post.
IIRC I mentioned group iv/v base blend but pointing to potential weakneses of majority III based "pseudo-syn" oil. We "all" loved the AN/PAO/POE trisyn Mobil1 of long past - That formula would probably require pricing at 10 bucks a Qt.
However today's M1 is the best I have used in the 38 years I have used the products.
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