Best coolant?

[FastAuto]

Go ahead and use Prestone it is a high quality antifreeze. It has been in my wifes 2003 Honda for 3 years and 40,000 miles. The vehilce has 138,000 on it and still has another 150,000 miles to go. I replaced the timing belt and water pump around 90,000 miles, flushed the system and filled with Prestone Extended Life (all Makes, All Models).
Yes she puts a lot of miles on a vehicle.

 

[FastAuto]

The bold text is to demonstrate that you can not believe everything you read. The Professor from Texas gave you a 2 page report, it reads straight off wikipedia (and we know how reliable that is-- HAA).

He mentioned Zerex G05 not containing 2-EHA; look at his last paragraph.

In my response I highlighted in bold text. It is from the MSDS sheet on G05 section 15. RTK means Right-to-Know, this is a law that some states have in place. You will see compounds not normally listed on the bottle or at the beginning of the MSDS. Do not just read the top paragraph; you have to read an entire report.

The bottle does not tell you all of the compounds used so you should not assume.

He also states that there is only one company, in Japan, which makes all Japanese antifreeze; this is also not true.

I could continue to reveal holes in his two page report but I will stop here. I hope everyone comprehends you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the internet unless they have the facts to back it up.

 

[FastAuto]

One last note: and I will repeat myself. 2-EHA is not causing problems and there are plenty of companies that use 2-EHA-- Domestic, European, and Asian.

When you use a coolant that contains phosphates be sure you use distilled or deionized water, unless you know the water you use has minimal contaminates. Phosphates can react with Salts of Calcium and Magnesium Carbonates, found in well or hard water, and it will adhere to hot metal surfaces. This will look like a white scale build-up in the cooling system. Yes, not all white scale is silicates.

Manufacturers use Deionized water for factory fill to eliminate this problem and the 50/50 premix at stores also use deionized water.

One of the many benefits to 2-EHA is that it will neutralize contaminates in water. This is why some manufacturers that use 2-EHA say it is alright to use good quality tap water.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: FastAuto

You will see compounds not normally listed on the bottle or at the beginning of the MSDS. Do not just read the top paragraph; you have to read an entire report.


Fair enough, but there must be a better example, because in this case what appears in that section does appear on the bottle. That's why I didn't understand what you were getting at with the RTK section until you explained it.

 

[Dan55]

FastAuto I agree Honda used 2EH in the past and coolant containers have codes. Peak Global Lifetime and Honda Type II have similar numbers on the front and back of the jug (MC06 and the zero has a slash). I also have a jug of Mazda long life green, code F04 again with a slash. and similar to Peak long life (Dexclone)with the same code.Supertech (Walmart)same code. Jugs are similar, my jug of Motorcraft G-05 is totally different.

 

[FastAuto]

That's why some states adopted the Right-to-Know Law. Not all of the ingredients are listed on the bottle. Some companies will list ingredients at the top of the MSDS and in the RTK section. Some only list in the RTK near the last page, and some will say- on file (with the state), so you don't know what other ingredients are being used. They do this for proprietary reasons and you would have to go to the state and see what is on file.
Remember, these are ingredients sometimes listed and sometimes not listed at the beginning of the MSDS and the state has a RTK what toxic/environmental ingredients are also in whatever they are making or producing.

You have Gov. Regulations to follow and then each state regulation to follow.

Oh yea-- 1,2-ETHANEDIOL is basically 2-EHA. So you can see the poster is incorrect.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: FastAuto
Go ahead and use Prestone it is a high quality antifreeze. It has been in my wifes 2003 Honda for 3 years and 40,000 miles. The vehilce has 138,000 on it and still has another 150,000 miles to go. I replaced the timing belt and water pump around 90,000 miles, flushed the system and filled with Prestone Extended Life (all Makes, All Models).
Yes she puts a lot of miles on a vehicle.


+1

I have Preston All Makes in '94 LS400 since 1997, I changed coolant every 2-4 years (whenever I remembered) with tap water using Prestone T-Flush. The car has more than 240k miles now without any problem.

Newer cars may need different coolant, but older car is okay with Prestone All Makes.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

1,2-ETHANEDIOL is ethylene glycol, not 2-EHA

 

[FastAuto]

Yes, I am a man to admit my mistake.

 

[ryland]

so whats the concensus, is it ok to use prestone all makes in a honda or better to use their type II coolant?

 

[ponderosaTX]

I have not run across any clear evidence of a connection between Old World Industries and Intac. According to the Old World Industries web site, they proudly claim to be a 30 year old, privately held independent American company rather than the American subsidiary of a Japanese corporation. (See http://www.oldworldind.com/chemicals/index.html and
http://www.ccijp.co.jp/E_CCI_HP/e_company_data/e_gaiyou/e_gaiyo_new.html.) Old World Industries produces a markets a much broader range of products than just antifreeze. (See http://www.oldworldind.com/chemicals/terminal_map.html and http://www.oldworldind.com/careers/our_products.htm).

In contrast, Intac appears to manufacture only antifreeze and brake fluid. CCI/Intac apparently has a large share of the US coolant business; they bought Dow Chemical's factory fill coolant business (including their coolant technology) in 1998 which had contracts with Ford and Chrysler. (See http://www.jei.org/Restricted/BR98/347x/347_JinUS_Chem.html and http://www.icis.com/Articles/1998/06/15/87753/news-capsule.html.) Intac evidently makes a broader range of coolants than just the CCI OEM coolants for the Japanese auto industry. They also manufacture brake fluid including products sold under the Mercedes Benz label. (See
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg40210.html.)

The Peak coolants currently produced by Old World Industries do not contain phosphates and Old World Industries emphasizes this fact in their marketing. On the other hand, even the latest "extra long life" Japanese OEM coolants produced by CCI/Intac prominently contain phosphates, albeit at lower concentrations than in the preceding generation of "long life" coolants.

I took another look at the MSDSs for Peak Global Lifetime antifreeze and Peak Long Life antifreeze; the two documents appear identical except for product names and filing dates. In addition, the FAQ link for Peak Long Life points to the FAQ page for Peak Global Lifetime, which I suspect is not an accident. I believe that the two products are identical but marketed differently. (Peak Global Lifetime makes more aggressive claims and has a better warranty).

I don't see any connection regarding ownership or control between Old World Industries and Intac. But CCI/Intac apparently manufactures coolants under contract for other companies so I would not be surprised if they manufacture coolants for Old World Industries. Nevertheless, there is no evidence that the coolants CCI/Intac manufactures for other producers have the same additive package as their Japanese OEM coolants. In fact, the products' marketing materials specifically state otherwise.

 

[FastAuto]

It is time for me to be a man, eat crow, apologize, and retract.

I stated that G05 contained 2-EHA I was having a brain [censored] and thinking of Zerex Extreme Life (Ethylhexanoic Acid). I did not practice what I preach by checking my work and not rushing. Thanks to PetetheFarmer for bring my error to attention early. This made me review my words and recheck.

I also apologize to the Professor from Texas on the G05 misstatement.

I should have realized my stupidity on the MSDS section 15 that I so wrongly pointed out.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: ryland
so whats the concensus, is it ok to use prestone all makes in a honda or better to use their type II coolant?


Why not Peak Global, then no possible chance of Dex sludge.

 

[Dan55]

This is from Peak Tech dept : Thanks for your e-mail. The PEAK LONGLIFE does contain the 2EH, and the PEAK GLOBAL LIFETIME does not.

 

[FastAuto]

Understanding 2-Ethylhexanoic Acid (2-EHA)

2-EHA is a clear liquid and is a branched substituted mono-functional acid with one secondary acid group. It is within the group of Carboxylic Acids (organic compound). There is a plethora of Carboxylic Acids generally found on earth with their own names and they are everywhere in our daily lives.

One of the benefits of 2-EHA is it can improve thermal and hydrolytic stability of various esters that have high demands.
Example of hydrolytic stability of a common plastic- NYLON:
Nylon is hygroscopic or basically, you can say- Nylon absorbs water over time. Nylon’s absorption of water from the atmosphere is approximately in excess of 3% of its mass and the rate at which Nylon will absorb water is temperature, time, and relative humidity reliant.

2-EHA is used for a broad range of applications and listed below are some of the better known:
Corrosion inhibition in antifreeze/coolants
Compressor oils
Oil for Electrical transformers
General lubricants
Antifungal additives

 

[Titan104]

What about Peak Extended Life?

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: ryland
so whats the concensus, is it ok to use prestone all makes in a honda or better to use their type II coolant?


Consensus? There's no consensus!

Besides, science doesn't work by consensus anyway (regardless of what the press seems to believe.)

The problem with coolants that contain 2-EHA is not that they're "harmful" in general- that would make the decieion easy. Its that they are harmful to very specific plastics and polymers commonly used in gasket materials, and without knowing SPECIFICALLY what plastics are in your engine and whether they are altered by 2-EHA, its impossible to make a blanket statement.

That's why, as PonderosATX said, its probably safest to suck it up and buy the factory coolant if there's a question.

If it were *my* car, I'd NEVER use a 2-EHA antifreeze but I really wouldn't hesitate to use Zerex G-05 or Peak Global Lifetime. However; I won't recommend that to anyone else without having first actually done it myself on that particular engine. I'm willing to take what I perceive to be a very minimal risk of any problem, but I won't recommend anyone else go out and assume that risk- no matter how small.

 

[Dan55]

Lifetime is the magic word, its their premium product and only one that does not contain 2-EHA.

 

[Dan55]

Then why would Prestone use it in there product?

 

[pbm]

I have PEAK Global in my Honda for over 50K with no problems. I wouldn't have a problem using Prestone All-Makes/Models in my Honda either. I would be less likely to use the Prestone in my Corolla because it has a chain rather than a timing belt so I won't be changing the water pump every 90 or 100K.