Best ammo size for close quarter residential ?
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Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Troll post.
If that was a troll post, it must have been very cleverly worded because even `I` was fooled!
You guys are being ridiculous. I asked a very simple question and expected a very simple answer. At this very moment, my common sense just kicked in and told me that if a Police Officer was to come out to my house and neutralize me for whatever reason, more than likely he'd be using a Glock .40 cal. Maybe that's the ammo I should be looking at since the Police Department feels for whatever reason that it's safe for use in a residential neighborhood.
For the rest of you guys that are suggesting I take firearms safety training, I haven't even got the gun yet!
Troll post.
If that was a troll post, it must have been very cleverly worded because even `I` was fooled!
You guys are being ridiculous. I asked a very simple question and expected a very simple answer. At this very moment, my common sense just kicked in and told me that if a Police Officer was to come out to my house and neutralize me for whatever reason, more than likely he'd be using a Glock .40 cal. Maybe that's the ammo I should be looking at since the Police Department feels for whatever reason that it's safe for use in a residential neighborhood.
For the rest of you guys that are suggesting I take firearms safety training, I haven't even got the gun yet!
Which should come first: flying lessons? Or buying the airplane?
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Troll post.
If that was a troll post, it must have been very cleverly worded because even `I` was fooled!
You guys are being ridiculous. I asked a very simple question and expected a very simple answer. At this very moment, my common sense just kicked in and told me that if a Police Officer was to come out to my house and neutralize me for whatever reason, more than likely he'd be using a Glock .40 cal. Maybe that's the ammo I should be looking at since the Police Department feels for whatever reason that it's safe for use in a residential neighborhood.
For the rest of you guys that are suggesting I take firearms safety training, I haven't even got the gun yet!
So you'll also have realized that the .40 ammo that the police department uses is or is very similar to Hornady Critical Defense, which is designed to penetrate thick clothing and common cover (plywood, drywall, sheet steel, etc.) This is the opposite of what you want in a home defense situation if you are worried about over penetration.
You want a low flash, frangible ammunition in whatever caliber you chose. It's hard to chose the right weapon and ammunition after you've already purchased it.
Firearms safety training should come BEFORE the purchase of a weapon. You need to be comfortable with a weapon, and you then need to chose your weapon based on your preferences, once you have had time to realize them.
Selecting an ammunition for a weapon that you do not own is jumping the gun. Pun intended.
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Troll post.
If that was a troll post, it must have been very cleverly worded because even `I` was fooled!
You guys are being ridiculous. I asked a very simple question and expected a very simple answer. At this very moment, my common sense just kicked in and told me that if a Police Officer was to come out to my house and neutralize me for whatever reason, more than likely he'd be using a Glock .40 cal. Maybe that's the ammo I should be looking at since the Police Department feels for whatever reason that it's safe for use in a residential neighborhood.
For the rest of you guys that are suggesting I take firearms safety training, I haven't even got the gun yet!
So you'll also have realized that the .40 ammo that the police department uses is or is very similar to Hornady Critical Defense, which is designed to penetrate thick clothing and common cover (plywood, drywall, sheet steel, etc.) This is the opposite of what you want in a home defense situation if you are worried about over penetration.
You want a low flash, frangible ammunition in whatever caliber you chose. It's hard to chose the right weapon and ammunition after you've already purchased it.
Firearms safety training should come BEFORE the purchase of a weapon. You need to be comfortable with a weapon, and you then need to chose your weapon based on your preferences, once you have had time to realize them.
Selecting an ammunition for a weapon that you do not own is jumping the gun. Pun intended.
You need to take firearms training before you possess a gun, and you could use some law education as well. From your ridiculous statements here, it seems more likely that you'll get into trouble with a firearm than be able to defend yourself.
If you shoot a person, a grand jury is going to determine if it was justified, based on whether you had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury. That's a jury of your peers; the folks who live around you and couldn't get out of jury duty. It's not going to be Alex Jones and Fox News commentators deciding your fate. It's going to be Californians.
Or, you could miss and have the bad guy disarm you and use that gun against you.
Or, you could brandish your gun at, or shoot someone who isn't a threat at all, because you're worried they might be out to neutralize you.
Gun ownership is a right, but not necessarily a good idea for everyone. You should put some thought into that, about whether owning a gun is more likely to get you personally out of trouble, or into it.
Here are some dogs that are available near you: Petfinder. Having a new buddy to exercise may help you feel safer and give you something to help pass the time.
If you shoot a person, a grand jury is going to determine if it was justified, based on whether you had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury. That's a jury of your peers; the folks who live around you and couldn't get out of jury duty. It's not going to be Alex Jones and Fox News commentators deciding your fate. It's going to be Californians.
Or, you could miss and have the bad guy disarm you and use that gun against you.
Or, you could brandish your gun at, or shoot someone who isn't a threat at all, because you're worried they might be out to neutralize you.
Gun ownership is a right, but not necessarily a good idea for everyone. You should put some thought into that, about whether owning a gun is more likely to get you personally out of trouble, or into it.
Here are some dogs that are available near you: Petfinder. Having a new buddy to exercise may help you feel safer and give you something to help pass the time.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
You need to take firearms training before you possess a gun, and you could use some law education as well. From your ridiculous statements here, it seems more likely that you'll get into trouble with a firearm than be able to defend yourself.
This is good advice. A gun, improperly used, will get you into far more trouble, than it will get you out of.
You need to take firearms training before you possess a gun, and you could use some law education as well. From your ridiculous statements here, it seems more likely that you'll get into trouble with a firearm than be able to defend yourself.
This is good advice. A gun, improperly used, will get you into far more trouble, than it will get you out of.
A gun is a tool. The person is the weapon. You can give a gun to a person, but if they lack the skill, ability, or mindset to shoot someone, then the gun becomes a very ineffective paper weight.
So first things first, you need to have the mindset that you are willing and able to shoot someone that wants to do you harm. The fantasy of shooting them in the leg so they dont have fatal injuries kinda points in the direction that you don't have the right mindset.
WHO FREAKING CARES about some 7 time felon scum bag breaking into your house!!! Shoot that vulture in the face and sleep good at night! Worrying about the poor little down trodden criminal that is planing on murdering and raping your family makes about as much sense as ketchup on chocolate ice cream.
AFTER you have adjusted your mindset, which definitely needs adjustment right now, then work on skill and ability. This means taking a few classes. Start with beginner classes, then take a defensive shotgun class and a defensive pistol class.
And if you are SERIOUS about getting a gun for home defense, then get a long gun. In your case, a 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 buck shot is a good compromise. It offers enough penetration on a bad guy, but less penetration through building materials than 9MM, .40, .45ACP, 00 buckshot, and rifle rounds.
Long guns are more accurate. Most average people will miss 70% of their shots with a pistol in a life or death situation. The long gun hits are much more probable.
When I lived in an apartment, I kept a 12 gauge next to the bed with #4 buckshot.
So first things first, you need to have the mindset that you are willing and able to shoot someone that wants to do you harm. The fantasy of shooting them in the leg so they dont have fatal injuries kinda points in the direction that you don't have the right mindset.
WHO FREAKING CARES about some 7 time felon scum bag breaking into your house!!! Shoot that vulture in the face and sleep good at night! Worrying about the poor little down trodden criminal that is planing on murdering and raping your family makes about as much sense as ketchup on chocolate ice cream.
AFTER you have adjusted your mindset, which definitely needs adjustment right now, then work on skill and ability. This means taking a few classes. Start with beginner classes, then take a defensive shotgun class and a defensive pistol class.
And if you are SERIOUS about getting a gun for home defense, then get a long gun. In your case, a 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 buck shot is a good compromise. It offers enough penetration on a bad guy, but less penetration through building materials than 9MM, .40, .45ACP, 00 buckshot, and rifle rounds.
Long guns are more accurate. Most average people will miss 70% of their shots with a pistol in a life or death situation. The long gun hits are much more probable.
When I lived in an apartment, I kept a 12 gauge next to the bed with #4 buckshot.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Which should come first: flying lessons? Or buying the airplane?
Common Sense
Which should come first: flying lessons? Or buying the airplane?
Common Sense
Learn about what you can reasonably shoot well in an emergency... at night... in your house... I like the .20ga suggestions. Makes a lot of sense. A revolver isn't bad either for a new shooter. But really, if it's only role is to keep you & your loves ones safe at home, get the .20ga pump.
But get it AFTER you have been trained on it. DO NOT go out & buy something that probably won't fit you (either physically or your nascent skill-set) & then waste time trying to make it fit.
This [censored]'s WAY too serious to afford even one screw-up.
In the meantime, get a standard/giant schnauzer or something as similarly guard-disposed. I have NEVER heard of a crook going into a house w/ a dog in it. That's twenty-five years of service speaking. Not once have I encountered it. Oh, I've read some weird horror stories but I have never actually encountered it. True story.
John.
But get it AFTER you have been trained on it. DO NOT go out & buy something that probably won't fit you (either physically or your nascent skill-set) & then waste time trying to make it fit.
This [censored]'s WAY too serious to afford even one screw-up.
In the meantime, get a standard/giant schnauzer or something as similarly guard-disposed. I have NEVER heard of a crook going into a house w/ a dog in it. That's twenty-five years of service speaking. Not once have I encountered it. Oh, I've read some weird horror stories but I have never actually encountered it. True story.
John.
This is my current home defense weapon -- a Klein #3248 sleever bar. I got half a mind to just leave it at that. You guys have dang near talked me out of ever owning a gun. WAY too much liability involved.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
This is my current home defense weapon -- a Klein #3248 sleever bar. I got half a mind to just leave it at that. You guys have dang near talked me out of ever owning a gun. WAY too much liability involved.
A shotgun loaded with 00 Buckshot makes mincemeat out of anyone holding one of those.
There's no liability worries, if an intruder is inside your home and threatening you or your family.
You don't shoot an unarmed man inside your home - especially if his back is turned away from you, unless he's about to confront / attack you.
This is my current home defense weapon -- a Klein #3248 sleever bar. I got half a mind to just leave it at that. You guys have dang near talked me out of ever owning a gun. WAY too much liability involved.
A shotgun loaded with 00 Buckshot makes mincemeat out of anyone holding one of those.
There's no liability worries, if an intruder is inside your home and threatening you or your family.
You don't shoot an unarmed man inside your home - especially if his back is turned away from you, unless he's about to confront / attack you.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
This is my current home defense weapon -- a Klein #3248 sleever bar. I got half a mind to just leave it at that. You guys have dang near talked me out of ever owning a gun. WAY too much liability involved.
Probably be OK if you take some martial arts training and learn how to use it. I don't want a bad guy getting that close to me.
Would you please post a link pointing to where police think .40 cal is "safe to use in a neighborhood"? thanks
This is my current home defense weapon -- a Klein #3248 sleever bar. I got half a mind to just leave it at that. You guys have dang near talked me out of ever owning a gun. WAY too much liability involved.
Probably be OK if you take some martial arts training and learn how to use it. I don't want a bad guy getting that close to me.
Would you please post a link pointing to where police think .40 cal is "safe to use in a neighborhood"? thanks
This thread went off the deep end several pages ago. It's about as useful now as used, wet toilet paper.
You're just as liable with any weapon you own and use. Without training and an understanding of the law, you're headed for trouble.
Training
Law classes
Get a dog
Training
Law classes
Get a dog
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
Add "On Killing" by Lt Col Dave Grossman and "On Combat" by Dave Grossman.
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
Add "On Killing" by Lt Col Dave Grossman and "On Combat" by Dave Grossman.
How about a cross bow, and a back hoe?
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
Add "On Killing" by Lt Col Dave Grossman and "On Combat" by Dave Grossman.
Grossman has some good stuff. He took the rough ideas you saw outlined in SLA Marshalls work such as "Men Against Fire" and looked for the science behind the phenomena Marhsll noticed in WW2 and Korea.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
Add "On Killing" by Lt Col Dave Grossman and "On Combat" by Dave Grossman.
Grossman has some good stuff. He took the rough ideas you saw outlined in SLA Marshalls work such as "Men Against Fire" and looked for the science behind the phenomena Marhsll noticed in WW2 and Korea.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
X2
A must for anyone contemplating a weapon for home defense.
Practically required reading.
UD
To the OP, there is a book you should read. It is called "In the Gravest Extreme, by Ayoob Massad." You can probably get it from your local library.
X2
A must for anyone contemplating a weapon for home defense.
Practically required reading.
UD
Looking at all the different answers, I am glad that most folks on this site tend to refrain from flame wars. NOW, can I assume that everyone buying ammo, etc. has already done the prep work? I mean reinforce the doors so you have 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds to get ready, put cheap LED or sodium lights all over, cut bushes, locks on gates, etc. Years ago I lived in a very bad neighborhood in old house with wooden french doors! I added 3 chains (98 cents? each )to each door. Working midnight shift, I awoke about 10 am to loud thumping. I thought my quick tempered brother was trying to get in (he had a key)and the chains stopped him, then awakened further and went downstairs and found the back french door was almost broken except the cheap chains. I had picked up my .22 AR-7 and shot through the door. Second shot jammed. However, they were running by then. (2 young black kids, on bikes, snow tracks.) Got better locks, and spent the $7 per month for 3 streetlights, and some other measures. And yes, new chains.
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