Best 0w20 to resist fuel dilution in Honda 1.5 TGDI engine? And use in Honda J35 V6s?

[OVERKILL]

That is somewhat strange. I'm still of the belief this whole fuel / oil dilution problem can be better laid at the doorstep of too loose a fitting piston rings, than direct fuel injection, or too low of octane.

I'm not saying that direct injection might not play a part. But it's not the solid cornerstone on which this whole fuel dilution disaster was built on. Toyota, as well as other manufacturers all use DFI to some degree.

I highly recommend looking at some of the small displacement DI UOA's. The Ford Ecoboost dilutes quite heavily, and these are much larger engines. Toyota uses dual injection; their DI mills use port injection for low speed operation and warm-up, which avoids many of the issues, such as this one. Ford has now switched to doing that too.

But they don't have dipsticks showing a 1 to 2 QUART overfill in as little as 2,000 miles directly because of fuel dilution. Honda on the other hand, is swimming in fuel dilution... Far MORE than any of the others.

The quickest and easiest way to the crankcase from the combustion chamber is past the piston rings. And in Honda's they're all loose as a goose.

Gasoline is thin. You put enough of it in the chamber, it's going to end up in the oil pan. If ring seal was a problem they'd also suffer from massive blowby and we'd see horrible leak-down and compression results.

The Honda issue varies significantly with driving profile and climate. One of these engines used for a decent commute in Florida won't have anywhere near the issues with dilution that one operated in Sudbury and driven 2km to work will. We see this same profile with other DI engines too, Honda's just appears to be worse because the 1.5L doesn't produce any heat.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Do you have that in writing?

You have to deal with regional management, but No they wont deny it unless you are a dope running 20W50 Castrol GTX in Nunavut with failed lubrication at cold start.

Doing ones own oil change? I would do as we did on our Old Subaru EJ that didn't like ILSAC oils.
Ran 3 quarts 10W30 Rotella Triple Protect and the rest Formula Shell 5W30.
Have receipts for the appropriate qty of 5W30 for the time of the oil change.

Apply this to M1 or Valvoline or (insert brand) run a mixture of 0W20 and some ACEA A3/B4 to boost HTHS

 

[odie]

The '09 + '10 FIT oil recommended weight is 5w-20 , went to 0w-20 for '11 > '14 ( '14 Canada , not U.S. ) . Did get permission from HONDA to use the 5w-20 for '13 FIT . Have it saved . Haven't used 5w-20 since the approval . Years ago HONDA did state to drive the CR-Vs' ( 1.5 Ltr. w/ turbo ) with D.I. on interstate at high speeds to help with fuel dilution .

 

[ZeeOSix]

Years ago HONDA did state to drive the CR-Vs' ( 1.5 Ltr. w/ turbo ) with D.I. on interstate at high speeds to help with fuel dilution .

Good excuse to the State Patrol when pulled over.

 

[parshisa]

Being using 5w30 in my 1.5t civic since 10k on the clock. 65k now, change with PPPP 5w30 every 3-5k miles, no field dilution to speak of, engine loves it some Pennzoil. One more oil change worth of 0w20 rotella left for my pilot, and will be switching to 5w30 as well (good old Walmart Pennzoil sale at 40c/qt)

 

[OVERKILL]

Being using 5w30 in my 1.5t civic since 10k on the clock. 65k now, change with PPPP 5w30 every 3-5k miles, no field dilution to speak of, engine loves it some Pennzoil. One more oil change worth of 0w20 rotella left for my pilot, and will be switching to 5w30 as well (good old Walmart Pennzoil sale at 40c/qt)

You are in Texas, so you don't have the same risk of dilution as someone living more northernly, FWIW.

 

[parshisa]

You are in Texas, so you don't have the same risk of dilution as someone living more northernly, FWIW.

Serious question, how do the ambient temperatures affect the dilution rate? Worth mentioning, first two OCI (including factory fill), level rose by a good 0.5-0.75qt. Ever since I switched to 0/5w30, level on the dipstick is always locked in. I’ve ran premium gasoline for a couple of OCI and did UOA (with oil analyzers), and fuel dilution % dropped nicely. Back to regular gasoline though

 

[OVERKILL]

Serious question, how do the ambient temperatures affect the dilution rate? Worth mentioning, first two OCI (including factory fill), level rose by a good 0.5-0.75qt. Ever since I switched to 0/5w30, level on the dipstick is always locked in. I’ve ran premium gasoline for a couple of OCI and did UOA (with oil analyzers), and fuel dilution % dropped nicely. Back to regular gasoline though

One of the big issues with this engine is that it doesn't make a lot of heat, and when it's not up to operating temperature, this greatly increases the rate of dilution.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing a few series of UOA's with 87 vs 91, using the same oil (as a constant). Would provide some data to go along with the idea that higher octane reduces knock enrichment, and thus dilution. Which we've seen data for with other engines, but not this one.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Big problem is you sent it to Blackstone, they don't measure fuel, it's inferred (badly) from flashpoint. You need to use a lab that uses GC to get a proper fuel % figure. There are several of them, probably the most popular on here are Polaris/OAI.

Yeah I know lol You tell me that a lot. I know blackstone sucks through you and other members. At that time I didn’t know about any other labs. I haven’t sent off a sample in quite a while.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

One of the big issues with this engine is that it doesn't make a lot of heat, and when it's not up to operating temperature, this greatly increases the rate of dilution.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing a few series of UOA's with 87 vs 91, using the same oil (as a constant). Would provide some data to go along with the idea that higher octane reduces knock enrichment, and thus dilution. Which we've seen data for with other engines, but not this one.

I had them, but it’s blackstone. You are correct these engines are so efficient there is no heat wasted. When I was a tech and had access to HDS, I would monitor coolant temp and when you come to a stop the temp would drop like 5 degrees, and if you idle it in park, it would really drop like 10 degrees, then you start getting the cylinder wash down.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Interesting I have a 21 CRV 1.5 Turbo with oil changes every 4000 miles at that point the level on the dipstick is up maybe 1/8" and I'm not smelling gas in the oil. That's a mix of highway and urban driving.

93 octane. Do not start the car and let it warm up for 10 minutes like most people think they have to do. Crank it, 20-30 seconds put in gear and drive easy until all fluids up to temp. That will reduce dilution as well, along with 93 octane.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Do you have that in writing?

A manufacturer cannot deny a warranty due to a consumer using a 30 or 40 weight oil. It’s called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to protect consumers. do you realize how many consumers out there are using viscosity other than recommended in their engines. Hell at all the manufacturers I have worked at, there are a lot of people that bring their own oil in to be used. I saw this the most at Nissan with the VQ. they always brought Mobil 1 0w40 in a car that was as ‘recommended’ 5w30 at that time. We put it in all the time.

 

[Shel_B]

The Honda issue varies significantly with driving profile and climate. One of these engines used for a decent commute in Florida won't have anywhere near the issues with dilution that one operated in Sudbury and driven 2km to work will. We see this same profile with other DI engines too, Honda's just appears to be worse because the 1.5L doesn't produce any heat.

Would you be able to explain that statement a bit, and flesh it out some?

 

[Shel_B]

93 octane. Do not start the car and let it warm up for 10 minutes like most people think they have to do. Crank it, 20-30 seconds put in gear and drive easy until all fluids up to temp. That will reduce dilution as well, along with 93 octane.

Would you be kind enough to explain how a higher octane fuel contributes to reduced oil dilution? Thanks!

 

[billt460]

A manufacturer cannot deny a warranty due to a consumer using a 30 or 40 weight oil. It’s called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to protect consumers. do you realize how many consumers out there are using viscosity other than recommended in their engines. Hell at all the manufacturers I have worked at, there are a lot of people that bring their own oil in to be used. I saw this the most at Nissan with the VQ. they always brought Mobil 1 0w40 in a car that was as ‘recommended’ 5w30 at that time. We put it in all the time.

Not to mention all of these people who take their vehicles to Jiffy Lube, Quick Lube, Pep Boy's, Wal-Mart, Big-O, and everywhere else. God only knows what they're putting into peoples crankcases these days.

I shudder to think how many are paying for synthetic, and are getting some cheap, crappy dino oil. And just go ahead and spin the fortune wheel as to what viscosity. Your guess is as good as theirs.

 

[PimTac]

Would you be kind enough to explain how a higher octane fuel contributes to reduced oil dilution? Thanks!

Post #34

As a single data point I run Shell V Nitro in the Mazda. Oil is run for 5000 miles. Yes I smell some fuel but that could be hydrocarbons as well. I have never tested the oil.

I have smelled worse fuel dilution in older carbureted motors than this Mazda.


My trips are a mix of short trips and 20-30 mile trips, all on 0W-20.

 

[kschachn]

Not to mention all of these people who take their vehicles to Jiffy Lube, Quick Lube, Pep Boy's, Wal-Mart, Big-O, and everywhere else. God only knows what they're putting into peoples crankcases these days.

I shudder to think how many are paying for synthetic, and are getting some cheap, crappy dino oil. And just go ahead and spin the fortune wheel as to what viscosity. Your guess is as good as theirs.

Do you really think they are that dishonest? Back a while I had to take a company car into a quick lube a few times to get the oil changed and they were sticklers for what the manual said about oil requirements. At least in that instance I’d be surprised if I asked for a synthetic and they gave me something else, but maybe I’m naive.

 

[billt460]

Do you really think they are that dishonest?

Yes.

 

[OVERKILL]

Would you be able to explain that statement a bit, and flesh it out some?

It's an extremely efficient engine designed to have as little friction as possible and because it's small displacement, it's already thermally disadvantaged. So, it takes a very long time to get up to temperature, and, as @l15be noted, has a hard time even staying there. So, it stays in startup-up enrichment longer and doesn't get hot enough to boil off the fuel. Combustion is also less complete in engines that aren't up to operating temperature, and it's using DI, which uses enrichment to mitigate knock as well. So, you put all of that together and you have a perfect storm for fuel dilution, particularly if the engine is short-tripped, or operated in cold climates, or particularly if you are doing both. That was the foundation for the class-action lawsuit.

 

[kschachn]

It's an extremely efficient engine designed to have as little friction as possible and because it's small displacement, it's already thermally disadvantaged. So, it takes a very long time to get up to temperature, and, as @l15be noted, has a hard time even staying there. So, it stays in startup-up enrichment longer and doesn't get hot enough to boil off the fuel. Combustion is also less complete in engines that aren't up to operating temperature, and it's using DI, which uses enrichment to mitigate knock as well. So, you put all of that together and you have a perfect storm for fuel dilution, particularly if the engine is short-tripped, or operated in cold climates, or particularly if you are doing both. That was the foundation for the class-action lawsuit.

The Japanese always were experimenting with adiabatic engines, it looks like they have exceeded their goal