Best 0w20 to resist fuel dilution in Honda 1.5 TGDI engine? And use in Honda J35 V6s?

[dkryan]

The Japanese always were experimenting with adiabatic engines, it looks like they have exceeded their goal

They felt the need to keep up with Smokey Yunick!

http://rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm

 

[ka9mnx]

It's an extremely efficient engine designed to have as little friction as possible and because it's small displacement, it's already thermally disadvantaged. So, it takes a very long time to get up to temperature, and, as @l15be noted, has a hard time even staying there. So, it stays in startup-up enrichment longer and doesn't get hot enough to boil off the fuel. Combustion is also less complete in engines that aren't up to operating temperature, and it's using DI, which uses enrichment to mitigate knock as well. So, you put all of that together and you have a perfect storm for fuel dilution, particularly if the engine is short-tripped, or operated in cold climates, or particularly if you are doing both. That was the foundation for the class-action lawsuit.

How can they pass emissions tests?

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

They felt the need to keep up with Smokey Yunick!

http://rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm

Been wanting to order the book Smokey wrote some time before he passed. You heard the story of when he got caught with a
1966 or 1967? Chevy Chevelle he took to qualify at a NASCAR track which no one knew he had built from the ground up to be smaller,
shorter and weigh less than the real stock Chevrolet manufactured Chevelles? Smokey was the reason they had to make up those
funny looking car shape templates to check the cars with. LOL.

 

[OVERKILL]

How can they pass emissions tests?

If it's in the pan it's not going out the tailpipe, lol.

Seriously though, this stuff is all pretty standard with DI, I'm sure you've seen the DI soot on bumpers? Yet those cars pass emissions. We have catalysts for a reason. Even port injected engines suffer from the same issues, though not to the same degree, when discussing warm-up.

 

[odie]

Removed from tailpipe a few years ago . 1.6 Ltr. w/ G.D.I. at 20,000+ miles . It has been close to 8 months since last check of the tailpipe on the FIT.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Removed from tailpipe . 1.6 Ltr. w G.D.I..

View attachment 122759

It would take my port fueled injected Coyote 60,000 miles to have that much soot build up.

 

[billt460]

And they're worried about Diesel's?

 

[Danh]

A manufacturer cannot deny a warranty due to a consumer using a 30 or 40 weight oil. It’s called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act to protect consumers. do you realize how many consumers out there are using viscosity other than recommended in their engines. Hell at all the manufacturers I have worked at, there are a lot of people that bring their own oil in to be used. I saw this the most at Nissan with the VQ. they always brought Mobil 1 0w40 in a car that was as ‘recommended’ 5w30 at that time. We put it in all the time.

Magnusson-Moss refers to any requirement by OEMs owners use dealers for service or jeopardize warranty coverage. Don’t think this applies to things like lubricant choice. For example, would an owner that used 0w-16 in a high performance vehicle spec’ing 5w-40 and had and engine failure not have a warranty problem?

 

[kschachn]

Magnusson-Moss refers to any requirement by OEMs owners use dealers for service or jeopardize warranty coverage. Don’t think this applies to things like lubricant choice. For example, would an owner that used 0w-16 in a high performance vehicle spec’ing 5w-40 and had and engine failure not have a warranty problem?

The criteria is an oil that causes engine damage. In your example an oil with too low an HT/HS can certainly cause damage.

 

[4strokes]

One of the big issues with this engine is that it doesn't make a lot of heat, and when it's not up to operating temperature, this greatly increases the rate of dilution.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing a few series of UOA's with 87 vs 91, using the same oil (as a constant). Would provide some data to go along with the idea that higher octane reduces knock enrichment, and thus dilution. Which we've seen data for with other engines, but not this one.

I live in southern Ontario and getting any heat on the coldest days takes a good 6-7 minutes of driving I avoid letting it idle for more than 30 sec., The heater hoses are quite long what do you think of putting furnace pipe around the hoses to reduce heat loss and bring the engine temp up faster?

 

[OVERKILL]

I live in southern Ontario and getting any heat on the coldest days takes a good 6-7 minutes of driving I avoid letting it idle for more than 30 sec., The heater hoses are quite long what do you think of putting furnace pipe around the hoses to reduce heat loss and bring the engine temp up faster?

I'd be concerned about risk of fire doing that. You might be better served by blocking off the rad.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I live in southern Ontario and getting any heat on the coldest days takes a good 6-7 minutes of driving I avoid letting it idle for more than 30 sec., The heater hoses are quite long what do you think of putting furnace pipe around the hoses to reduce heat loss and bring the engine temp up faster?

Turn the heater off until it gets to temp. As efficient as this engine is, it will never make heat if you turn on the heater, as you are removing the heat from the radiator.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

When I was looking at the European owner's manuals for the various model year CR-Vs, in addition to noting that they freely recommend/allow 30 grade oils (and in some cases 40 grade), they also require minimum 95 research octane fuel. I looked up a couple of sources and that appears to equate to 91 octane US.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Magnusson-Moss refers to any requirement by OEMs owners use dealers for service or jeopardize warranty coverage. Don’t think this applies to things like lubricant choice. For example, would an owner that used 0w-16 in a high performance vehicle spec’ing 5w-40 and had and engine failure not have a warranty problem?

Honda don’t require 0w20. It is ‘recommended’ for fuel economy only. Not with best protection in mind.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Removed from tailpipe a few years ago . 1.6 Ltr. w/ G.D.I. at 20,000+ miles . It has been close to 8 months since last check of the tailpipe on the FIT.

View attachment 122759View attachment 122763

GDI is way more sooty.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Honda don’t require 0w20. It is ‘recommended’ for fuel economy only. Not with best protection in mind.

You'd have to get a HPL 10w20 or something like it to be able to hold up to fuel dilution in a 20wt. I ran the Redline 5w20 & 0w20 for awhile because it held up better than many 5w30 comidity oils. If you are tracking or constantly on the freeway I think that a hydro cracked 5w30 would hold up better.

 

[billt460]

It hard to believe they would design and market an engine that performs so horribly in cold weather. Especially when that's where the bulk of their market exists.

 

[kschachn]

You'd have to get a HPL 10w20 or something like it to be able to hold up to fuel dilution in a 20wt. I ran the Redline 5w20 & 0w20 for awhile because it held up better than many 5w30 comidity oils. If you are tracking or constantly on the freeway I think that a hydro cracked 5w30 would hold up better.

Please explain how it held up better and how you measured better.

 

[4WD]

If it's in the pan it's not going out the tailpipe, lol.

Seriously though, this stuff is all pretty standard with DI, I'm sure you've seen the DI soot on bumpers? Yet those cars pass emissions. We have catalysts for a reason. Even port injected engines suffer from the same issues, though not to the same degree, when discussing warm-up.

One of our German engineers has a C7 with the 4 exhaust tips … he’s got the best belly laugh telling how they hooked up on the wrong 2 outlets … Tester being very impressed with the American car

 

[Danh]

The criteria is an oil that causes engine damage. In your example an oil with too low an HT/HS can certainly cause damage.

Point is that Magnusson-Moss is not related to this issue, only where you can have your car serviced. This is not the legislation to hide behind on oil viscosity.