Best 0w20 for Extreme Cold Start at -20F?

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At work I drove '04 GMC 4x4 with an LS for many years, and it developed piston slap noise at around 100k kms. Kept on slapping until it went to auction with close to 500k kms. Everything else was falling apart by then, but it still ran fine.
 

OVERKILL

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If you want to get maximum protection from cold and dry starts - assuming vehicle is outside, Redline high performance oil is way to go. Big advantages with flow rate and clinging to the metal due to polarized esters. Any group 3 with cake up at cold temps...
good luck!
by the way I put RL HPMO in a newly acquired Acura RSX I just got for my 15 y.o. It has 175k miles on it, and it runs so well with the Redline.
I did it because the engine was so well maintained by first owner.... every 3-4k miles. Winter will be easy as pie.
Actually, too much POE content results in surface competition for anti-wear additives, making them less effective. That's why the the majority base oil in Redline is PAO, like with other higher-end boutique oils like AMSOIL.

PPD's prevent waxy bases (like Group III) from experiencing wax crystal formation within the oil's Winter grade range.
 
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2 things I'm stating:

1. Your ear is not a calibrated device. Your environment is not controlled. You CANNOT determine a noise difference this insignificant.
2. Have we ever seen any proof at all that a single digit (guestimate) reduction in decibel means anything to engine wear or life? I personally haven't.
So, you've went out and taken a certified device to various vehicles and verified that there are no noise differences?

Or are you just parroting random internet myth and information without actually having verified it yourself?
 
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So, you've went out and taken a certified device to various vehicles and verified that there are no noise differences?

Or are you just parroting random internet myth and information without actually having verified it yourself?
You clearly didn't comprehend what I wrote since I never stated there cannot be noise differences between oils.

In fact my second point implies I believe it's possible for there to be a noise difference.
 
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someone here has a mazda 3 2012 skyactiv G with 246,000 miles and uses valvoline 0w20 engine runs with no problems







 
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down in the park
Actually, too much POE content results in surface competition for anti-wear additives, making them less effective. That's why the the majority base oil in Redline is PAO, like with other higher-end boutique oils like AMSOIL.

PPD's prevent waxy bases (like Group III) from experiencing wax crystal formation within the oil's Winter grade range.

I would think that a few % POE would be too much if it's the wrong kind. And no matter how much wouldn't be too much if it's not. Polarity drives the competition for surface area, and the higher viscosity POE molecules have longer HC tails which makes them less polar. Then there's temperature effects, I don't know if this affects zddp and POE (or other polar fluids) the same, but the higher the temperature the less they are attracted to metal surfaces.
 

OVERKILL

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I would think that a few % POE would be too much if it's the wrong kind. And no matter how much wouldn't be too much if it's not. Polarity drives the competition for surface area, and the higher viscosity POE molecules have longer HC tails which makes them less polar. Then there's temperature effects, I don't know if this affects zddp and POE (or other polar fluids) the same, but the higher the temperature the less they are attracted to metal surfaces.
What's available from Mobil for example, in terms of polyol esters (POE) is not a huge slate, they only make two:
- Esterex NP343 (4.3cSt)
- Esterex NP451 (5.0cSt)

Most popular (common?) are TMP or PE, but yes, there are other subtypes as well.

They (Mobil) of course have several other types of esters (adipate, phthalate, trimellitate) but none of them are overly heavy.

Polyol esters are, from my understanding, the most commonly used (it's what Mobil uses in their blending guide) due to their properties.

This is an interesting article on optimum ester blending ratios:

PE ester based lubricants performed better than TMP ester based lubricants. The performance of commercial base lubricant mixed with PE ester up to 20% blending ratio is found to be optimum with deterioration observed past 20%. In case of TMP ester mixed with commercial lubricant base the optimum blending ratio is found to be 85:15.

As seen from Fig. 5a and b, up to last non seizure load point (C) all blends performed very well indicating effectiveness at lower loads. In the incipient seizure region (C-D) and immediate seizure region (D-E), the blends with 20 and 25% PE ester experienced a sharp increase in the wears scar diameters affecting the load wear index and the weld load. Due to this, although the weld load weld load remained the same as that of commercial oil, there is a reduction in the load wear index due to poor anti-wear performance of the blends after seizure load. Blends with percentage of PE ester below 20% and TMP ester below 15% could fare very well in these regions. This can be ascribed to the synergy between esters and additives in the commercial oil leading to an enhanced surface lubricity.

Under extreme temperatures produced by extraordinary operating pressures, the EP additives in the commercial oil react with the metal surfaces creating new compounds like iron phosphides and iron sulfides on the contact surface. These metal compounds form a chemical film on the surface which acts as a barrier thereby decreasing friction, wear and lessen the chance of welding. The worn surfaces of the balls prior to weld load during EP test were characterized in a metallurgical microscope for the structure. Figs. 6 and 7 depict the images taken from metallographic microscopes with worn balls of EP test prior to weld load. The images are taken at 20x resolution on a metallurgical microscope. It can be seen that base oil and base oil mixed with 10% and 15% PE ester as well as TMP have performed very well.

The wear scar in all cases is less and the esters could prevent abrasive wear during extreme pressure conditions. In case of pure ester and oils mixed with 20% and 25% PE and TMP esters, a severe abrasive wear could be noted indicating ineffectiveness at higher concentrations.

And a neat article on ZDDP that mentions surface competition issues:
A theory emerged of surface competition whereby carboxylic acids and some esters would bind strongly to the surface to reduce friction in a base oil. However, in a full formulation, they would displace or prevent the full formation of an AW film. Industry gradually migrated to either oleyl amides or glycerol monooleate7 as ashless friction modifiers, where the amide or glycerol ester head group that adsorbs onto the metal surface is less polar, so more labile.

Gareth Moody of Croda Europe Ltd. offers an observation about tribofilms and friction modifiers, where there is a balance between performance and solubility: “Often we see that friction modifiers, which are not fully soluble (cause haze, etc.), work really well at reducing friction. The balance is getting the friction modifier to the surface as efficiently as possible without compromising the stability of the formulated lubricant. This also is true for polymeric friction modifiers.”

During the 1990s, Japanese OEMs were taking an interest in molybdenum-based friction modifiers. This was partly due to concerns about the durability of organic friction modifiers. While some studies focused on molybdenum dithiophosphates, it was soon recognized that there was little performance difference when mixed with ZDDP if molybdenum dithiocarbamates were used.8, 9, 10 Thus, a theory emerged of ZDDP as a phosphate donor to molybdenum emerged.11

STLE member Vince Gatto of Vanderbilt Chemicals LLC says, “In engine oils, ZDDP functions by forming various glassy polyphosphate films, which are very effective at reducing wear but not very good at reducing friction. Molybdenum dithiocarbamates function in a way that synergizes with ZDDP by producing more durable friction reducing MoS2 tribofilms.10 Replenishment of the MoS2 tribofims is enhanced by ligand exchange between ZDDP and MoDTC.”11

More recently, ZDDPs have been shown to reduce the incidence of LSPI,12 the scourge of small direct-injection gasoline engines. But there’s no happy ending to this part of the story, according to Steve Haffner. “One of the main additive suppliers has reported up to 90% reduction in LSPI events when overtreating some formulations with ZDDP. Unfortunately, chemical limits contained in both American Petroleum Institute (API) and the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) specifications do not allow higher phosphorus concentrations in lubricants designed to protect three-way catalysts.”
 
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You clearly didn't comprehend what I wrote since I never stated there cannot be noise differences between oils.

In fact my second point implies I believe it's possible for there to be a noise difference.
We comprehend what you’re saying. It’s just that what you’re saying is wrong.
 
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In cold weather I have used M1 0W30 AFE both straight and mixed 66%/33% with M1 0W40 FS (to reduce the pour point) in my Ecoboost 3.5L. Both worked great: fast starts, no unusual noises, great milage. The lowest temperatures I encountered was -38F, but I don't think it was quite that cold when I started it that morning.
 
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I came across this Chinese motor oil forum and found it interesting how some of their brands give a breakdown of their formula right on the packaging.

Here's an example of a 0W-20:
https://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread/69072168d733c5a6/103981251-1.html#pvareaid=104340

Translated photos of the back of the bottle:

IMG_7054.jpg


IMG_7056.jpg
 
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Technical Product Data​

PropertyUnitDataAudit
Density at 20 °Ckg/m³839,0EN ISO 12185
ColourbraunVISUELL
Viscosity at 100 °Cmm²/s7,9DIN 51562-1
Viscosity at 40 °Cmm²/s43,1DIN 51562-1
Viscosity Index VI156DIN ISO 2909
HTHS Viscosity at 150 °CmPa*s2,64ASTM D5481
CCS Viscosity at -35 °CmPa*s4890ASTM D5293
Low Temp. Pumping viscosity (MRV) at -40 °CmPa*s10.000ASTM D4684
Pourpoint°C-63DIN ISO 3016
Noack Volatility% M/M7,4ASTM D5800
Flashpoint°C240DIN EN ISO 2592
tbnmg KOH/g8,0ASTM D2896
Sulphated Ash%wt.0,79DIN 51575
All indicated data are approximate values and are subject to the commercial fluctuations.

Looks pretty good to me.
 
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I ran a fill of M1 AFE 0W-20 in my Duarte’s-powered Mazda Tribute years ago. I was amazed at how easy it started below -20C, like a warm summer day, no rattles, no strain, nothing.
 
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