Being from close by the area he's in, he's doing the best he can do. If you leave any space in front of you, like 1 bike length, cars will try to get in between you and the car in front of you. Being there is no extra real estate in the tunnel, you ride where you can claim all the lane. Otherwise cars WILL try to pass you on the right, or the left. Riding in this area is a whole different ball game, than riding out on a nice meandering country road. Cars look at it like your an annoyance to them, and they have to do whatever they have to , to get around you. If you have to ride here, you have to be a road warrior.,,,,
"Be Careful"
- Thread starter HangFire
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Yes, I can understand that.
Don't listen or get new acquaintances if it bothers you all that much. The ones you have mean well, they understand (or have been told) that motorcycles are inherently more risky than cars or trucks in cases of an accident. We all make choices in life with many, many different things that have some level of risk. You shouldn't need to worry about your own choices.
So alternatively say you will drive safely, and leave it at that.
So alternatively say you will drive safely, and leave it at that.
And he’s positioned to take advantage of the only viable escape route which is between the lines of traffic.
You have to forget your car dimensional thinking and remember a bike will fit places…
I said that in my prior post.
You did, however it could be mis interpreted as center of the lane (which as you say is almost never the best place to be) instead of the line between traffic.
Most non riders don't understand that they're essentially 3 lanes of travel in a single lane for a bike, right center and left. What some might interpret and wandering around, should actually be a deliberate strategy based on where the threats and escape routes are.
Early morning and late evening when the sun is just off the horizon can be more dangerous as it can blind people and make you invisible. I guy at work got bit by this one morning riding in to work - car turned left in front of him at the last second because the sun was blinding. Just something I'm super aware of when riding with the sun low in the sky behind me.
CleanSump
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This is why I don't commute on the bike anymore; traveling Southeast in the morning and Northwest in the afternoon puts the Sun in my eyes as well as the daydreaming car drivers. Traffic has gotten congested all day here too. What were quiet country roads are now full of SUVs in a hurry going nowhere.
It’s not really for attracting attention, but it is a nice side effect.
Lane position has to do with the traffic around you, staying out of people’s blind spots and having an escape route.
I hardly ever ride in the middle, there is too much junk there and generally it’s not the safest because you’re in a blind spot from both sides, and when drivers see room in that lane, they will take it.
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With due respect. Activities generally involve some danger. Being a free individual allows us to decide what maybe dangerous or not.
Countless activities can be considered dangerous. Media stories that generate the most ad revenue rule though.
As far as motorcycles safer, yes, depending on the bike, I specifically upgraded bought a new bike in 2014 with Linked ABS brakes, many others have all sorts of multi point traction control. ABS is fantastic on a motorcycle, many times a reaction is to panic and not properly apply the brakes, its perfectly understandable on a bike, as its a balancing act between front and rear which are independent of each other.
With linked ABS, panic stop the linked ABS system takes over control and applies the proper pressure to front and rear brakes no matter which lever you are hitting for braking, the ABS is taking control from you. My bike, 2up, loaded with luggage, is well over 1000 LBS. The darn bike can stop on a dime with just a chirp out of the tires. (dont ask how I know) Just kidding, first day on the bike, 2 up coming home from the mountains, traffic stopped abruptly on the interstate. I hit the brakes and at the same time knew my "escape route" would have been between the center divider cement wall and the 3rd lane. It wasnt even close to necessary. Brand new at the time, was only on the bike an hour or two, tires chirped and we were stopped, wife and I couldn't believe it.
As far as danger, all one has to do is not drink or do drugs and ride. Sure if you want, throw on a helmet but that is up to the individual.
Close to FIFTY percent of motorcycle deaths involve alcohol. DOnt drink and your death rate drops in half and by an EASY 25% as those are individual deaths with no other vehicles.
Source which is from a link provided on a CDC.gov website.
Fatality Facts 2021: Motorcycles and ATVs
A summary of fatality statistics about motorcycles and atvs compiled by IIHS from 2021 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.
www.iihs.org
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With due respect, I've lead an exceptionally dangerous or adventurous life. There are acceptable or necessary risks, and then there are frivolous unnecessary risks. MC riding is the latter. Go watch motorcycle accident videos or aftermath. Most were survivable in a car. In fact, as stated, MCs are massively more risky, having huge solo accident fatalities cars rarely have.
Bikes are as stated earlier 18x greater fatality. Even deducting for single vehicle and drunk driving errors, which appear to be 4 out of 10, that's still 6 out of 10 involving 2nd vehicles and/or sober operators. Just looking at the latter categories, that's still about 10x more lethal than a passenger car.
And, let's also factor that car drivers just get in the car and go, whereas most (smart) bikers are wearing some PPE which usually entails leathers and helmet, and still result in a 10x or more fatality rate. So even with PPE, bikes are enormously more risky.
As I mentioned, the safety advances in bikes, are vastly eclipsed by cars. You mention better braking and handling on a newer bike as safety advances. I'll grant that. Cars have that, plus front, side, curtain airbags, crumple zones, side impact steel reinforced areas, roll cage or passenger area steel reinforcements, shatter resistant glass, anti-roll suspension features, plus the drivers are not exposed to elements, thrown objects, bugs, rocks, or have exposed limbs, seatbelts to protect from being thrown from the vehicle (very high fatality when thrown), head restraints to prevent whiplash, etc. Plus, balancing is not an issue but on bikes on windy days or roadway problems (grooves, obstacles, etc.) balance and tipping/dumping is a thing that cars don't worry as much about. Hitting a tire or branch in the road is a nuisance in a car, but could be death on a bike.
The risks I've taken, and there have been aplenty, were calculated and unavoidable and as safe as practical. Riding an MC, in my humble view, is simply foolishly pointlessly dangerous. A low speed T-bone with a texting teen, and you might be an amputee or suffer a serious TBI, or dead. I've seen videos where the bikes are obliterated and the biker in several pieces and the car barely damaged, and occupants physically fine.
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What is exactly a "necessary" risk? To me that would be if your or your loved ones life or health is in danger and you have to take immediate action to eliminate that danger.
If it's your job, why can't you get a safer one? Why risk your life or health for a corporation that doesn't care about you?
We all take risks in life, some more, some less. Some take it the the extreme, like jumping out of a completely working airplane, and some take safety to an extreme as well. Neither extreme is good overall, but it is needed to balance things out IMO.
If it's your job, why can't you get a safer one? Why risk your life or health for a corporation that doesn't care about you?
We all take risks in life, some more, some less. Some take it the the extreme, like jumping out of a completely working airplane, and some take safety to an extreme as well. Neither extreme is good overall, but it is needed to balance things out IMO.
Necessary risks involve participating in activities where there is little alternative to the risk if you want to participate. Either do it while mitigating risks, or don't do it. But there's not an alternative to the experience. Skydiving. Swimming with sharks. Boating. Shooting guns. Traveling by car or air. Martial Arts. Contact sports. Risks are mitigated but not eliminated. There's not much realistic alternative if you want to do these dangerous things.
Unnecessary risks is MC riding. There's better modes of transportation, and the risks are really not mitigated much, and safety equipment is mostly an illusion especially at higher speeds, which ALL bikers engage in. You crash above, say 50, and survival odds are very very low.
While car fatalities are down about 1/2 at their peak, and the lowest per mile traveled due to safety, MC riding fatalites have been at all time high numbers for several years, accounting for 14% of all vehicular deaths by only
45% of accident fatalities involve three things, all of which are inherent on MCs. 1) no seatbelt and thrown from vehicle, 2) speeding - which is what bikes excel at, and 3) alcohol, which is more pronounced on a bike that requires higher coordination and concentration.
NHTSA Releases 2020 Traffic Crash Data
38,824 lives were lost —highest number of fatalities since 2007
In 2020, MC fatalities were the highest since data began being collected in 1975. So much for all those added safety features.
- "Motorcyclist fatalities up 11% (highest number since first data collection in 1975)"
Correction, I remembered wrong. It's worse. It's actually 28x more likely to be fatal on a bike accident, than a passenger car. Ignoring this simple fact, is plain foolish.
Every single important measurable statistic and metric (safety being the primary) works against MC riding, and when factoring the 'cost savings' on fuel, the cost of a 2nd vehicle (MC) + associated fees and gear, etc. outweighs any trivial fuel savings.
Skydiving - safer alternative is wind tunnel.
Swimming with sharks - swim with dolphins
Boating - kayaking
shooting guns - shooting pellet guns/BBs/play video games
Funny, how for the things you "approve of" there is no alternative and you are just "mitigating" risks at that point, but for motorcycles, it's just unnecessary risk because a car is just a better mode of transportation.
Driving a car is not the same as a motorcycle. The experience is quite unique, so to use your logic, one can mitigate the risks of riding because there are no alternatives that give the same experience.
Sorry for the bold print, I cannot unbold it and I did not bold it. Anyway, I noticed the following comparison versus being a victim of a violent crime trends, per the FBI. In essence, the murder/fatality and violent rape, and robbery rates from being a crime victim in the United States is on average about 6, 38, and 74 respectively, per 100,000. Total violent crime rates in the US are 398 per 100,000 people. It's more in key metro areas, less elsewhere, but that's not the focal comparison here.Contrast this with accident fatality rates: in a car or light truck is about 1 per 100,000. The fatality rate on a MC is about 67 per 100,000. Accident injury rates about 1,000 to 1,200 per 100,000 MCs.
I found the comparison, interesting. Basically, fatality on a MC per 100,000 is 10x higher than murder rate, 2x higher than rate of rapes, and almost even with being victim of a robbery. You're about 2-3x overall likely to be injured on a bike, than the victim of a violent crime. So, riding a bike is basically being a 3x chance of being a self-selected victim of violent crime!
Crime in the United States - Wikipedia
Cars and trucks are extremely safe, compared to MCs which are extremely unsafe.
Occupant Fatality Rates By Vehicle Type, 2011 And 2020
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Motorcycles are by their nature far less crashworthy than closed vehicles. They are also less visible to other drivers and pedestrians and less stable than four-wheel vehicles. Operating a motorcycle requires a different combination of physical and mental skills than those used in driving four-wheel vehicles. Motorcyclists and their passengers are more vulnerable to the hazards of weather and road conditions than drivers in closed vehicles.
Motorcyclist Fatalities And Fatality Rates, 2011-2020
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Motorcyclist Injuries And Injury Rates, 2011-2020
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General Estimates System (GES). NCSA has also changed the methodology of estimating people nonfatally injured in motor vehicle traffic crashes.
Source: U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Federal Highway Administration.
View Archived Tables
Occupant Fatality Rates By Vehicle Type, 2011 And 2020
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View Archived Tables
Motorcyclists Killed, by Time of Day and Day of Week, 2020
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Source: U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Safety Administration.
View Archived Tables
Vehicles Involved In Fatal Crashes By Vehicle Type, 2011 And 2020
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None of those examples I've given are as risky, nor replaceable, by what you've suggested anyway.
You, like all the MC riders, are grasping to justify extraordinarily risky behavior that is totally avoidable by just driving in a car. I've heard all the pro-MC arguments before, and they are silly. At the end of the day, MC riders ride b/c they dismiss the risks. Until they either die, or recognize that it's just simply too risky (that was my transition) from seeing or experiencing accidents and deaths.
Several folks on this thread love MCs, but have opted to recognize the risk/reward isn't worth it.
28 times greater fatality on a bike, than a passenger car.
8.6 million MCs represent only 3% of all vehicles, with 290 million cars/trucks in the US, and MCs are driven less and seasonally, yet MCs comprise 14% of all fatalities on the roads. Grossly disproportionate death rate. As reflected by the 28x more likely fatalities, miles driven etc.
I didn't see anyone, and I have certainly never stated that riding motorcycles doesn't have grater risks. You are preaching to the choir.
When I bought my brand new 1980 Honda 750k and was pulling out of the Honda dealers lot the first time I sat on the bike outside of the store I was getting ready to turn right onto a four-lane main drag it had two lanes going in each direction and there was one car coming in the direction that I was going to be going that was in the fast lane. I was getting ready to pull out and that car changed lanes into the lane close to me as it approached the exit of the Honda dealer. I locked up the tires even though I had only moved the bike a few inches starting to pull out. That in itself was an eye-opener. I had a Yamaha 175 street and trail for several years before that and knew how to ride on the street but sometimes people just don't have a clue that you're there.
I've also came upon the remains of a few crashed motorcycles where the rider was dead over the years while I was driving a car.
It doesn't much matter that the driver of the vehicle that the motorcycle was killed by was at fault for the accident. That's not going to bring back the dead motorcycle rider.
I haven't ridden a motorcycle and several decades but if I ever ride again it would be in the country only and not on any main roads.
I've also came upon the remains of a few crashed motorcycles where the rider was dead over the years while I was driving a car.
It doesn't much matter that the driver of the vehicle that the motorcycle was killed by was at fault for the accident. That's not going to bring back the dead motorcycle rider.
I haven't ridden a motorcycle and several decades but if I ever ride again it would be in the country only and not on any main roads.
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