"Be Careful"

[KrisZ]

Just did a quick calculation on medical malpractice deaths.. Now the data on it is a bit sketchy, but most sources agree it's about 250,000 per year.
According to data about US hospitals, total admission is 33,356,853.

250,000 / 33,356,853 = 0.0074947

0.0074947 * 100,000 - 749.47 deaths per 100k patients admitted.

Now, that is scary, should we start discouraging people from going to hospitals and doctors? I mean if we're preaching, let's preach!


https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals

 

[leadcounsel]

Just did a quick calculation on medical malpractice deaths.. Now the data on it is a bit sketchy, but most sources agree it's about 250,000 per year.
According to data about US hospitals, total admission is 33,356,853.

250,000 / 33,356,853 = 0.0074947

0.0074947 * 100,000 - 749.47 deaths per 100k patients admitted.

Now, that is scary, should we start discouraging people from going to hospitals and doctors? I mean if we're preaching, let's preach!


https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals

Your argument is a logical fallacy known as a hasty generalization without application of reason.

Why are these people in the hospital, for instance? Sick and injured people go to hospitals. Medicine is an imperfect science, many are seriously injured, have co-morbidities, would have died otherwise due to their underlying medical issues (health, accident, etc.), and "medical malpractice" suits are juicy lawsuits with a lot of potential monetary payouts. Hospitals, also, are a place where bacteria and virus thrive too. But if you're sick and/or injured, you tend to go to hospitals.

And a good way of staying out of this category of sick and injured, is to be smart about your health. A big one is to stay off motorcycles given the extreme high injury rates, 3x that of assault injury rates in the US.

Guess how many medical malpractice lawsuits happen outside of hospitals at places where healthy and uninjured people gather. About zero.

 

[KrisZ]

The deaths are due to medical malpractice, so these patients would've been alive otherwise.
Using your logic, if we looked at all the motorcycle accident deaths, I'm sure a good portion of these people had underlying medical issues, they had a high chance of dying anyways, let's not count them in, right?

Perhaps you're a bit to hasty with application of your reasoning.

 

[leadcounsel]

The deaths are due to medical malpractice, so these patients would've been alive otherwise.
Using your logic, if we looked at all the motorcycle accident deaths, I'm sure a good portion of these people had underlying medical issues, they had a high chance of dying anyways, let's not count them in, right?

Perhaps you're a bit to hasty with application of your reasoning.

I'm sorry but I'm simply not even going to attempt to expel the energy needed here to refute or debate this silly attempt at an analogy beyond the following obvious points. It's abundantly clear that MC riding is a highly dangerous yet unnecessary and voluntary behavior where 1/2 of the deaths are due to USER error. Meanwhile, whatever the figures are for medical errors, and whether those are "highly dangerous" or whether the person would have died, without care (e.g. a cancer misdiagnosis), it's necessary and generally involuntary participation where a professional makes an error in a complex healthcare environment. Furthermore, everyone needs medical care at some point so the pool of persons is from worst to best. MC riders are generally among the more healthy, male, younger population, less prone to death than the elderly frail lifetime smoker seen for lung cancer at the hospital, and they misdiagnose her not realizing she has a collapsed lung, and she dies "prematurely." The "pool" of people is entirely different. There's so many other points but it's so obvious it's a nonstarter argument I'll leave it here.

* Note, only a small % of Med Mal claims are successful, disproving your assertion.

 

[CleanSump]

Point is it is risky to enter the hospital. Point made.
The fallacy here is the nitpickers trying to look smart.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I didn't see anyone, and I have certainly never stated that riding motorcycles doesn't have grater risks. You are preaching to the choir.

People are either a motorcycle rider or they are not. The ones that ride know the risks ... and the ones that don't ride won't change anybodies minds not to ride. It's pretty risky dating these days too ... so better hang that up too.

 

[leadcounsel]

Point is it is risky to enter the hospital. Point made.

No.
If you're going into the hospital, you're not well. You're either seriously sick or you're injured, often seriously. You're relying on teams of others to help make you well. Mistakes can and obviously do occur in this generally involuntary behavior (as in, a patient calculates odds are better in the hospital than not). No good alternative, other than perhaps getting second medical opinions, is available.

It has absolutely zero correlation whatsoever, to a presumptively healthy person who voluntarily gets on a MC and drives. Driver calculates his voluntary decision will not be dangerous, when in reality it's exceptionally dangerous. Plenty of viable easy non-MC alternatives exist that are vastly safer.

There simply is no analogy that can be made her, and thinking there is is nonsensical.

 

[leadcounsel]

It's pretty risky dating these days too ... so better hang that up too.

With 1 out of 2 ending in divorce, where the female initiates divorces 80% of the time, and gets state incentives cash and prizes to divorce, there's a lot of wisdom there. For men, all risk and insufficient reward.

I'd sooner ride a motorcycle!

 

[ZeeOSix]

There simply is no analogy that can be made here, and thinking there is is nonsensical.

With 1 out of 2 ending in divorce, where the female initiates divorces 80% of the time, and gets state incentives cash and prizes to divorce, there's a lot of wisdom there. For men, all risk and insufficient reward.

I'd sooner ride a motorcycle!

I just found the perfect analogy. And it's one where you can't even have control, were as on a motorcycle you can at least control what you're riding.

 

[KrisZ]

I just found the perfect analogy. And it's one where you can't even have control, were as on a motorcycle you can at least control what you're riding.

More like, with a motorcycle you know you’re the only one riding it, dating who knows how many riders are involved

 

[DuckRyder]

Oh jeez …that’s a lotta words for someone whe is not going to attempt something. Remember I said early on there would be those people…

 

[CourierDriver]

I owned a few motorcycles in my day, including a BMW, K-series and a’ boxer’ that was my favorite. I also owned a Harley FXRT. Had one fairly significant tumble on aI Honda 250 and that was a wake-up call. Now that I’m old and fragile, my two-wheel days are over. Back when I was riding, cell phones weren’t that prolific as they are now. Today, people on the phone when they should be driving, makes riding a hell of a lot more dangerous.

Im 77 and still on my
sporster,,love it

 

[Jay Freddy]

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Frank Herbert

 

[leadcounsel]

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Frank Herbert

Confusing "fear" with just being sensible and intelligent, doing a risk/reward calculation.

Other examples: Refusing to wear a helmet on a MC, or eye protection using power tools or guns, or refusing to wear a seatbelt in a car, or other common sense decisions. They have nothing to do with fear, just the risk is far greater than any perceived reward.

There's a reason everyone says to be careful on a MC, because it's exceptionally dangerous behavior (and no reward). I've mentioned that during my combat deployments we had less combat fatalities, than MC fatalities every year back home. It's bananas to think that riding a MC was more dangerous than people actually trying to kill you with bombs and snipers, but that's the reality.

Driving on 2 wheels to look cool and impress others, is not worth the 28x greater chance of dying in a accident. I've yet to hear, in my entire life, a tangible reason for riding MCs. It boils down to "cool," and "fun." Well, I'm not putting my life and serious injuries on the line, at extremely high rates, for these reasons. Factoring bike and gear costs, it's not saving any money either, so that argument is out. What else ya got? To look cool? Please. I'm not 15 trying to impress others.

ETA: I will reiterate, I've owned a MC, driven it for a couple years. It was among the dumbest decision in my entire life, and the only reason I did it, and a universal one for men, is to look cool and fit in. After a couple years of extreme danger, close calls, etc. I got rid of that thing and never looked back.

 

[leadcounsel]

Oh jeez …that’s a lotta words for someone whe is not going to attempt something. Remember I said early on there would be those people…

So, you think 127 words is "a lotta words?" Are pictures better?

 

[alarmguy]

With due respect, I've lead an exceptionally dangerous or adventurous life. There are acceptable or necessary risks, and then there are frivolous unnecessary risks. MC riding is the latter. Go watch motorcycle accident videos or aftermath. Most were survivable in a car. In fact, as stated, MCs are massively more risky, having huge solo accident fatalities cars rarely have.
....

The risks I've taken, and there have been aplenty, were calculated and unavoidable and as safe as practical. Riding an MC, in my humble view, is simply foolishly pointlessly dangerous. A low speed T-bone with a texting teen, and you might be an amputee or suffer a serious TBI, or dead. I've seen videos where the bikes are obliterated and the biker in several pieces and the car barely damaged, and occupants physically fine.

Im not sure what your point is though? Clearly you are against motorcycle riding and clearly many are not. Im not sure why all the preaching based on what you think is acceptable. Your certainly entitled to your views as we all are.

 

[DuckRyder]

So, you think 127 words is "a lotta words?" Are pictures better?

I think 3 words it s lot for someone who says they aren’t going to attempt something. That’s a lotta laughing faces too..

 

[CleanSump]

If one doesn't want to ride; don't.
If I choose to ride, it's none of your business.

I'm 10 years behind you @CourierDriver. Good for you!

 

[leadcounsel]

Im not sure what your point is though?

Seriously?! One would have to be purposefully not wanting to understand the point. At least 3 or 4 members on this very thread, have given up riding b/c of the dangers.

OP asked why people say to "be careful." It seems to me it's been articulated. That you are unable to understand it, I have no ability to more clearly state it than has been shown in this discussion.

Clearly you are against motorcycle riding and clearly many are not. Im not sure why all the preaching based on what you think is acceptable. Your certainly entitled to your views as we all are.

Would you endorse your 5 month pregnant wife to ride? If not, why?

Yes, clearly many are for MC riding. 5000 of them die annually, disproportionately 14% of fatalities, 28x higher than cars. And I have to deal with rude reckless and artificially vulnerable MC drivers. If I'm involved in an accident with a car, regardless of fault, or even if I am at fault, the other driver probably lives. If it's a bike, even if he's at fault, that's on my conscience when he dies. If I'm at fault, something a minor as a parking lot accident or low speed collision, not seeing a nearly invisible bike, could kill someone and send me to prison, whereas a car would be a fender bender.

Too often, wise people remain silent in discussions and that has lead to a lot of grief in our nation. Look around. I feel a moral sense of duty to enlighten people who - for reasons of generally youthful irrational behavior - only think 5 seconds from now, versus any long-term considerations and risk/reward. Many people have no concept of risk/reward. It then results in - pick your socio-economic items from the buffet of problems in America. It's the result of too many adults failing to share their wisdom.

So, go ride until your hearts' content or engage in a myriad of other foolishly dangerous behavior. No skin off my back (pun intended). I'll continue to attempt to have others develop critical thinking skills.

 

[ammolab]

Confusing "fear" with just being sensible and intelligent, doing a risk/reward calculation.

Other examples: Refusing to wear a helmet on a MC, or eye protection using power tools or guns, or refusing to wear a seatbelt in a car, or other common sense decisions. They have nothing to do with fear, just the risk is far greater than any perceived reward.

There's a reason everyone says to be careful on a MC, because it's exceptionally dangerous behavior (and no reward). I've mentioned that during my combat deployments we had less combat fatalities, than MC fatalities every year back home. It's bananas to think that riding a MC was more dangerous than people actually trying to kill you with bombs and snipers, but that's the reality.

Driving on 2 wheels to look cool and impress others, is not worth the 28x greater chance of dying in a accident. I've yet to hear, in my entire life, a tangible reason for riding MCs. It boils down to "cool," and "fun." Well, I'm not putting my life and serious injuries on the line, at extremely high rates, for these reasons. Factoring bike and gear costs, it's not saving any money either, so that argument is out. What else ya got? To look cool? Please. I'm not 15 trying to impress others.

ETA: I will reiterate, I've owned a MC, driven it for a couple years. It was among the dumbest decision in my entire life, and the only reason I did it, and a universal one for men, is to look cool and fit in. After a couple years of extreme danger, close calls, etc. I got rid of that thing and never looked back.

I bet AIDS has killed as many or more folks than Motorcycles. Was it a dumb decision to continue to have sex during the last 30 years or so? It’s fun, but you really don’t have to do it. Were you doing it just to be “cool”? Did you give it up like your “image” Motorcycle?

You wore a condom? Well I wear a helmet?
You limited your partners? Well I select low traffic daylight roads and drive sober and sane (MC since 1963). I accept the risk because I enjoy it…I’m far from “cool” and I realize life can’t be risk free.