Originally Posted By: wickerham
Here's a email conversation that started out with me and a RP rep. asking about the source of the steel they use for their cans and turned into an oil discussion:
ME: You do have a filter that fits my vehicle and thank you but no than k you on specifying an oil for my needs. I use an oil with a higher than normal ZDDP content. Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Purolator are other manufactures I've contacted. In fact, I pay Amsoil a fee to be a Preferred Customer and receive a lower cost on merchandise the sell.
RP:I guess.
Are you sure that the specific Amsoil product actually has higher ZDDP?
They tend to claim a lot of things that are not actually true.
Such as API Service Classifications that they do not have or VW/Audi warranty claims - etc.
RP has not reduced any content of ZDDP in any of our motor oils.
We offer the SAE Licensed oils (but have continued to offer API SL oils), our Motorcycle specific and then race oils.
Not all additive packs are created equal though.
Higher ZDDP amounts does not necessarily correlate to less wear.
Too much antiwear can even lead to increased deposits.
Cheers,
Good luck in your quest.
Still curious as to what kind of vehicle you drive.
David
ME:I never said that I use Amsoil oil in my engine, only that the oil I do use (not Amsoil) has a high ZDDP content. In a flat tappet engine higher ZDDP is very important to wear protection. I do have my oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs periodically as well.
RP:I've been very open with you - what are you hiding?
Why won't you disclose the vehicle that you drive?
You've peaked my interest as to what a US Steel worker would drive that he considered to be a made in America vehicle?
I am well aware of ZDDP levels and flat tappet cams - as I have been with RP for 20 years and have a degree in engineering as well as race a car for fun on weekends.
Excessive levels of ZDDP can lead to exhaust valve sticking, deposits in ring grooves can lead to stuck rings, etc.
So running a higher than necessary ZDDP level is not good either.
Choosing an oil based solely on ZDDP content is very similar to choosing beer, wine and liquor based solely on alcohol content.
Open up a bit.
I'm not going to bite .....
Heck - you know my name, where I work, my cell phone, etc.
Just interested in that you have very defined strong opinions and I find it interesting to hear your input.
No one in over a year has asked the question that you did about where the steel is sourced on the filters. I applaud you on it and also not shopping at certain retailers - we're in agreement on this as I feel strongly as well.
I am not in agreement on paying a 'preferred customer fee' to any company for the 'right' to purchase something. That's a MLM or multi level marketing pyramid scheme.
But - that is also your choice .
I am curious as to what you have found out about the other filter companies - who they are and what their response was.
I was proud of the quick response from Champion Labs on the US sourced steel answer. Have other companies even bothered to answer?
ME:David,
I am hiding nothing. I fact that I won't divulge the information pertaining to the vehicle that I drive is strictly based on the fact that you're not interested in it as a matter of personal curiosity as much as you are interested it the information for research and demographics, let's be honest!
Extreme levels of ZDDP are bad true, but motor oil companies have been reducing the amount in the oil they produce for years for the reason of gaining longer life out out catalytic converters. Where does this leave the driver of the "classic" car? And again, my oil gets analyzed by Blackstone for reasons other than checking to see "how much alcohol content" it has left, as your analogy would state.
Paying Amsoil a fee once a year doesn't give me the right to shop there, anyone can shop there. The difference is that I can pay less margin and if I so choose, become a retailer of their product. (Which currently I choose not to do, by the way.)
I too am impressed by how fast you got an answer from Champion Labs, however I am very disappointed that I have not heard back from them yet with an answer to the same question you posed to them.
Wix filters emailed just today to inform me that their filters are manufactured from US Steel sourced steel from Sparrows Point, Maryland.
The other filter companies, as of yet, have not addressed my inquiries.
RP:Demographics - whoa - you're giving me and Royal Purple way more credit than what is deserved.
Joe - I have been a one man tech department for years.
Marketing studies?
Are you kidding me......
I'm asking because I am curious as to what brand of car you are driving that you feel is composed entirely of US made components?
That hasn't happened since prior to 1970 in my best guesstimate.
Since you have such strong opinions - I personally was curious as to what car you had that you felt as strongly about as you obviously do about oil filters.
As far a Sparrows Point - I've been there- it's now owned by a Russian (Severstal) and they're looking at a 1/3 workforce reduction. Many other US plants are now owned by the Indians - (Mittal)
We lubricant several pieces of equipment there and I work with the Reliability Engineers on solving lubrication related problems - using our higher performing oils to increase reliability and equipment life to help the mills stay competitive with overseas companies.
ME:I've thoroughly enjoyed our correspondence over the past few days, David.
I sent the last email in haste though, as I didn't research the Sparrow's Point mill until after sending it out. It's a shame really, too many US companies are shutting down and/or being sold, exactly why I am being so diligent in seeking out American made products.
I consider my automobile to be American made because it was manufactured by United Autoworkers Union members in a high wage state. Unlike the "most Amercian made" car the Toyota Camry which is manufactured in a low wage state by non-union employees (why not work at WalMart?). The 2008 version of my vehicle (not the year I own, I like classics) was constructed of more than 70% US sourced parts. But the key factor being a UAW made vehicle from USW sourced steel, is why it is proudly Made in USA.
RP:So I drive a Dodge with a Cummins and a G-56 Daimler transmission with an AAM axle and Hayes brakes.
My truck was assembled in Mexico but the engine made in the US.
I'm not sure where the transmission was made.
It's got Bosch injectors but a Nippondenso starter and alternator.
I bet the electronics (radio) was made in Mexico.
Now Dodge is owned in part by an Italian company and the US Government.
What does that make my truck to be?
David
I can continue the rest tomorrow if any interest.
I am curious just exactly your motives were for this exchange? Why would you contact an oil/oil filter company and ask for info and refuse to provide your vehicle info so they can provide you the most accurate answers? The David you were speaking with I believe is head of their Tech dept( David Canitz ). This guy is one of the most helpful tech dept guys you will EVER contact about oil. It looks to me like you were just trying to get a rise from RP. Really kind of lame.
Here's a email conversation that started out with me and a RP rep. asking about the source of the steel they use for their cans and turned into an oil discussion:
ME: You do have a filter that fits my vehicle and thank you but no than k you on specifying an oil for my needs. I use an oil with a higher than normal ZDDP content. Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Purolator are other manufactures I've contacted. In fact, I pay Amsoil a fee to be a Preferred Customer and receive a lower cost on merchandise the sell.
RP:I guess.
Are you sure that the specific Amsoil product actually has higher ZDDP?
They tend to claim a lot of things that are not actually true.
Such as API Service Classifications that they do not have or VW/Audi warranty claims - etc.
RP has not reduced any content of ZDDP in any of our motor oils.
We offer the SAE Licensed oils (but have continued to offer API SL oils), our Motorcycle specific and then race oils.
Not all additive packs are created equal though.
Higher ZDDP amounts does not necessarily correlate to less wear.
Too much antiwear can even lead to increased deposits.
Cheers,
Good luck in your quest.
Still curious as to what kind of vehicle you drive.
David
ME:I never said that I use Amsoil oil in my engine, only that the oil I do use (not Amsoil) has a high ZDDP content. In a flat tappet engine higher ZDDP is very important to wear protection. I do have my oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs periodically as well.
RP:I've been very open with you - what are you hiding?
Why won't you disclose the vehicle that you drive?
You've peaked my interest as to what a US Steel worker would drive that he considered to be a made in America vehicle?
I am well aware of ZDDP levels and flat tappet cams - as I have been with RP for 20 years and have a degree in engineering as well as race a car for fun on weekends.
Excessive levels of ZDDP can lead to exhaust valve sticking, deposits in ring grooves can lead to stuck rings, etc.
So running a higher than necessary ZDDP level is not good either.
Choosing an oil based solely on ZDDP content is very similar to choosing beer, wine and liquor based solely on alcohol content.
Open up a bit.
I'm not going to bite .....
Heck - you know my name, where I work, my cell phone, etc.
Just interested in that you have very defined strong opinions and I find it interesting to hear your input.
No one in over a year has asked the question that you did about where the steel is sourced on the filters. I applaud you on it and also not shopping at certain retailers - we're in agreement on this as I feel strongly as well.
I am not in agreement on paying a 'preferred customer fee' to any company for the 'right' to purchase something. That's a MLM or multi level marketing pyramid scheme.
But - that is also your choice .
I am curious as to what you have found out about the other filter companies - who they are and what their response was.
I was proud of the quick response from Champion Labs on the US sourced steel answer. Have other companies even bothered to answer?
ME:David,
I am hiding nothing. I fact that I won't divulge the information pertaining to the vehicle that I drive is strictly based on the fact that you're not interested in it as a matter of personal curiosity as much as you are interested it the information for research and demographics, let's be honest!
Extreme levels of ZDDP are bad true, but motor oil companies have been reducing the amount in the oil they produce for years for the reason of gaining longer life out out catalytic converters. Where does this leave the driver of the "classic" car? And again, my oil gets analyzed by Blackstone for reasons other than checking to see "how much alcohol content" it has left, as your analogy would state.
Paying Amsoil a fee once a year doesn't give me the right to shop there, anyone can shop there. The difference is that I can pay less margin and if I so choose, become a retailer of their product. (Which currently I choose not to do, by the way.)
I too am impressed by how fast you got an answer from Champion Labs, however I am very disappointed that I have not heard back from them yet with an answer to the same question you posed to them.
Wix filters emailed just today to inform me that their filters are manufactured from US Steel sourced steel from Sparrows Point, Maryland.
The other filter companies, as of yet, have not addressed my inquiries.
RP:Demographics - whoa - you're giving me and Royal Purple way more credit than what is deserved.
Joe - I have been a one man tech department for years.
Marketing studies?
Are you kidding me......
I'm asking because I am curious as to what brand of car you are driving that you feel is composed entirely of US made components?
That hasn't happened since prior to 1970 in my best guesstimate.
Since you have such strong opinions - I personally was curious as to what car you had that you felt as strongly about as you obviously do about oil filters.
As far a Sparrows Point - I've been there- it's now owned by a Russian (Severstal) and they're looking at a 1/3 workforce reduction. Many other US plants are now owned by the Indians - (Mittal)
We lubricant several pieces of equipment there and I work with the Reliability Engineers on solving lubrication related problems - using our higher performing oils to increase reliability and equipment life to help the mills stay competitive with overseas companies.
ME:I've thoroughly enjoyed our correspondence over the past few days, David.
I sent the last email in haste though, as I didn't research the Sparrow's Point mill until after sending it out. It's a shame really, too many US companies are shutting down and/or being sold, exactly why I am being so diligent in seeking out American made products.
I consider my automobile to be American made because it was manufactured by United Autoworkers Union members in a high wage state. Unlike the "most Amercian made" car the Toyota Camry which is manufactured in a low wage state by non-union employees (why not work at WalMart?). The 2008 version of my vehicle (not the year I own, I like classics) was constructed of more than 70% US sourced parts. But the key factor being a UAW made vehicle from USW sourced steel, is why it is proudly Made in USA.
RP:So I drive a Dodge with a Cummins and a G-56 Daimler transmission with an AAM axle and Hayes brakes.
My truck was assembled in Mexico but the engine made in the US.
I'm not sure where the transmission was made.
It's got Bosch injectors but a Nippondenso starter and alternator.
I bet the electronics (radio) was made in Mexico.
Now Dodge is owned in part by an Italian company and the US Government.
What does that make my truck to be?
David
I can continue the rest tomorrow if any interest.
I am curious just exactly your motives were for this exchange? Why would you contact an oil/oil filter company and ask for info and refuse to provide your vehicle info so they can provide you the most accurate answers? The David you were speaking with I believe is head of their Tech dept( David Canitz ). This guy is one of the most helpful tech dept guys you will EVER contact about oil. It looks to me like you were just trying to get a rise from RP. Really kind of lame.
