B3 in a TDI?

[BobFout]

I have in my collection an ACEA A3/B3-04 oil (Royal Purple 0w40), and my diesel is a Euro TDI. From a recent thread, we glean that one of the major differences between B3 and B4 is B4 is for DI diesels, while B3 is for IDI diesels.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/acea-b3-vs-b4.133679/

My owner's manual allows for the usage of B3 or B4.

Does anyone have experience with RP 0w40 in a light Euro diesel application, or with a B3 oil in a TDI? What could happen if I ran a B3 oil in a TDI?

 

[BobFout]

*bump* Someone's gotta know about B3 in a TDI...

 

[UG_Passat]

think of this.... Castrol Syntec 505.00 also meets API CF. RP 0w40 is a CF oil as well.

Maybe try it. @ 5000 miles, do a used oil analysis

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
think of this.... Castrol Syntec 505.00 also meets API CF. RP 0w40 is a CF oil as well.

Not really sure how meeting a non-descriptive spec that requires no formal testing (and will expire at the end of the year) is a good datum for equivalency.

It's akin to saying, 'think of this.... Castrol Syntec 505.00 comes in a plastic bottle. Store-brand peanut oil is in a plastic bottle as well.'

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
think of this.... Castrol Syntec 505.00 also meets API CF. RP 0w40 is a CF oil as well.

Maybe try it. @ 5000 miles, do a used oil analysis


Unfortunately, CF is light-years from a valid spec for a TDI of this era. The "lowest" spec that was kosher in 2003 is CF-4.

The two Syntecs that meet 505.00 also meet MB 229.5, a much newer and more encompassing spec than 505.00 or A3/B3 or A3/B4.

I could do used oil analysis, though would it show me changes in piston cleanliness (of a negative type)? (more oxidation perhaps?)

 

[JAG]

I'd ask Royal Purple why A3/B3 is listed but not A3/B4. Please tell us what they say.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
think of this.... Castrol Syntec 505.00 also meets API CF. RP 0w40 is a CF oil as well.

Maybe try it. @ 5000 miles, do a used oil analysis


Unfortunately, CF is light-years from a valid spec for a TDI of this era. The "lowest" spec that was kosher in 2003 is CF-4.

The two Syntecs that meet 505.00 also meet MB 229.5, a much newer and more encompassing spec than 505.00 or A3/B3 or A3/B4.

I could do used oil analysis, though would it show me changes in piston cleanliness (of a negative type)? (more oxidation perhaps?)

Yes, the minimum API Spec is supposed to be CF-4/CG-4.

Though also, technically the Mobil 1 0w40 is also a CF oil.

I'm just trying to give you some sort of excuse that you're looking for, since since you were asking.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: JAG
I'd ask Royal Purple why A3/B3 is listed but not A3/B4. Please tell us what they say.


I've e-mailed them, we'll see what they say.

 

[UG_Passat]

B3-04 tests for piston cleanliness & ring sticking in a VW IDI.

in 2008, B3 got revised to include a VW TDI engine test (and removed the IDI) with higher standards for piston cleanliness and ring sticking.

However, according to RP's site, it is tested to B3-04 standards

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
B3-04 tests for piston cleanliness & ring sticking in a VW IDI.

in 2008, B3 got revised to include a VW TDI engine test (and removed the IDI) with higher standards for piston cleanliness and ring sticking.

However, according to RP's site, it is tested to B3-04 standards


This is correct.

What confuses me is why in 2003 VW "allows" B3 if it's only tested with IDIs....

 

[UG_Passat]

VW does some weird things... maybe VW allows B3-98 because it was still technically acceptable in the ALH motor.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW does some weird things... maybe VW allows B3-98 because it was still technically acceptable in the ALH motor.


That's certainly a possibility, as ACEA B3-04 could have applied to PD TDIs.

It's still a bit of a "scurry" idea

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW does some weird things... maybe VW allows B3-98 because it was still technically acceptable in the ALH motor.


That's certainly a possibility, as ACEA B3-04 could have applied to PD TDIs.

It's still a bit of a "scurry" idea

By that time (2004), after the longitudinal 1.8T sludge fiasco, VW simplified the requirements to:
for the PD's: must meet VW505.01

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
VW does some weird things... maybe VW allows B3-98 because it was still technically acceptable in the ALH motor.


That's certainly a possibility, as ACEA B3-04 could have applied to PD TDIs.

It's still a bit of a "scurry" idea

By that time (2004), after the longitudinal 1.8T sludge fiasco, VW simplified the requirements to:
for the PD's: must meet VW505.01


Hm. That's true.

PDs came out in 2000 in Europe, so that throws a wrench into it as far as ACEA ratings. Essentially the ALH is the same engine Europe had in the late 90s.

Bah, I just don't want dirty pistons and rings from a B3 oil!

(though it's possible RP 0w40 exceeds B3, just not tested)

 

[UG_Passat]

ACEA is a voluntary standard. Royal purple claims to "meet or exceed" B3-04.

However, given that you got a VNT17/22 turbo, uprated nozzles, and tune...if you run it...do a used oil analysis at 5000 miles.

 

[BobFout]

I do 5K and 10K used oil analysis anyways, just to make sure fuel and soot are nominal, and keep an eye on wear metals. So far so good on wear metals, no change even with the mods over the years.

How would UOA show piston cleanliness and ring sticking though? Oxidation?