Aux. Spin on Transmission Filters

[Gary Allan]

micron ratings are funny. Some are single pass..some multipass. That's why you find some Wix filter that has a beta 2/20 = 15/24 ..but the nominal is listed as 19. They're different tests.

Good find on the FP site.

 

[Tempest]

Thanks for staying with me Gary, I'm getting an education.

I found a 3 micron absolute Donaldson on their Site. I was all stoked that I had found something new, but a search revealed otherwise: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=604054&an=0&page=9.

Though he was going to use it as a bypass for the engine.

Anyway, according to that thread, the element is only $20 which is pretty cheap for filtration that good.

According to the Data Sheet (chart way at the bottom for spe 15 bta 3),pressure drop is <5psi @ 15GPM, and <2.5psi @ 10 GPM. Do these numbers sound good? What is a typical flow for a tranny (I have good sized one)?

 

[Gary Allan]

You don't have to worry in a hydraulic/transmission installation. You're not pouring insolubles from combustion byproducts with each warm up.

I'm not sure of what standard they're using. If it's like my Greshen, which has the published spec's on the filter, they use an IS0 150 fluid @100C (IIRC - I don't have the filter in front of me) ..which I think works out to a 40 weight. Your ATF is about a 10 weight. So, I'd expect less PSID at the given flow rates ...a substantial reduction. I'll see if I can dig up the filter to compare a common hydraulic filter with your proposed one.

I would have no issue with just using it ..especially with a bypass in the mount. I don't think it will ever be in use.

 

[Tempest]

Thanks again for the info. I look forward to the flow information if you can find it. Filtration is something I have just started learning.

 

[Gary Allan]

It's a real interesting topic. A lot of confusion and a distinct lack of bona fide authoritative source info available to the masses.

Okay, here's the Greshen filter spec's as they appear on the can. I swore that Greshen was made by Wix due to seeing the address as the same (town, stste) as Wix ..but this one says Minneapolis, MN.

TWA = time weighted average (or so I'm told) TYP = typical

TWA Beta 10=2 TYP 50% = nominal
TWA Beta 20-20 TYP 95%
TWA Beta 22=75 TYP Absolute or 98.67%

Capacity 8 grams TYP

Delta P @ 10 gpm 150 SSU = 4 PSID

Okay ...memory isn't as good as it should be 150 SSU (SUS) is a 10 weight @ 100F ..and above a 60 weight @ 212F. I think the ISO 4572-1981 had the temp spec included

Either way..somehow I transposed ISO 150 fluid to 150 SSU visc fluid.

Gosh meds need changing ..or is this one of those "it's all part of the aging process" stuff that my mother used to get all flustered about

 

[Gary Allan]

Okay, this may make a little more sense. We don't have to assume any temp of the test fluid. It's a static spec. 150 SSU/SUS works out to about 30 CST. I took PZ ATF+3 with appears to have a VI of 184 and a visc of 37 @ 40C (104F).

So, in this situation you may produce some PSID when the fluid is @ 100F or lower. The visc of trans fluid @ 100C/212 7.7 CST

Since I'm having difficulty manipulating numbers lately ..I just used this formula to show that it's below this number

* CentiPoises (cp) = CentiStokes (cSt) × Density
* SSU1 = Centistokes (cSt) × 4.55
* Degree Engler1 × 7.45 = Centistokes (cSt)
* Seconds Redwood1 × 0.2469 = Centistokes (cSt)

1centistokes greater than 50

So I just assigned a 51 CST and converted it to SUS and got 11.x CST ..which is greater then 7.7 CST.

Hence, your ATF will be lower then 1/3 of the test visc criteria that generated the 4PSID in the Greashen filter that I quoted.

There you have it! Clear as mud.

Naturally, anyone that sees any flaws here ..PLEASE feel free to tune up this post. My level of ability to integrate and manipulate numbers is quickly becoming a lost art. I'm entering into a "dark ages" in terms of substance/function and am quickly moving to a conceptual state that has difficulty proving itself in the theoretical and relies heavily on "realized/observed events".

Edit: I don't know what typical flows are for automatic transmissions. I'm sure that they vary. 10gpm, the rate that the Greashen test PSID was measured, would be extremely high for an engine ..even at high speed. So take it FWIW.

 

[Tracker8]

Been following this and since I don't understand all that I don't know, is there any real advantage using a hydraulic filter like the Northern Tool over a top line engine oil filter like an Amsoil or Mobil 1?

 

[Gary Allan]

Hydraulic filters are usually finer than automotive filters. You don't have to worry too much about holding capacity due to the lack of combustion byproducts.

Now if you've already got a remote mount in a 3/4-16 thread, then by all means use it. Your filters will, typically, be more expensive for the same level of filtration ..but you're not buying another mount.

 

[Trucku]

So far my Perma-cool unit is serving me well.I did have a perma cool spin on initially, but shifting became bad after 2 weeks of install, so I changed to a new filter. I guess in some cases this was good, because if the filter went into bypass I would have not know. It is installed before the cooler and in place right behind my grill.
I bought a Wix filter that I was going to put in, because the filter has a bypass valve and not the mount, but I have no issues currently.

I should be upgrading my setup to a hydraulic filter with a bypass in the mount, if it can fit in the same space.If not then the Wix goes in the perma cool unit.

 

[Tempest]

So I went ahead and ordered the Northern Filter and it came in today. Overall it looks good, and has what appears to be (2) 3/8" ports on either side to attach a gauge. No part # on the head itself. Not sure yet what the mounting holes are, but appear to be 1/4-20.

The filter that came with it is Filtration Products Corp. #
FPE30-10N. The site shows: B(x)=2/20/75 = 6µ/8µ/13µ for filtration. The "Spec" page shows 1" - 12 threads. Should be good, but I think I'll run the 3 micron Donaldson after this element.

Pressure drop appears to be the same as the Donaldson:

Any thoughts?

P.S. Any recommendations on gauges for this thing? The only one they had on Northern was one for 5000 PSI!

 

[Trucku]

Sunpro gauges are reasonable. If you don't want mechanical and running tubed lines around, Get electronic gauges.

 

[Gary Allan]

McMaster has a 0-60 ..but you kinda need to plumb this up to the passenger compartment. Otherwise you need to run next to the car with your head under the hood to read it under load at a given flow rate.

If you can find a cheap PSID gauge in the 0-20 range ..that would be ideal.

Here's one like one of the two I have. This is 0-15 PSID It has a switch that you can use to turn a light on in your dash when it reaches a certain PSID.

 

[Tempest]

So a set up like this:

is not a good idea? Would the tranny flow properly in Park with the engine revving to ~ cruse RPM, while someone else checked the gauge on the head? I really don't want to get fancy with this, just don't have the time.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I don't think you're gonna load it fast enough to see anything on the gauge. Not a bad idea if you have a problem.

What I'm saying is that I think, in the vast majority of installations like this, you're going to replace it with some annual or longer service interval before you load it. It would surely let you know if you've got a problem.

Yes, I think you should be able to get higher flow out of your cooling circuit in the manner you describe.

The greatest part about putting this (or any other form of aux filtration) in the cooler line is that you catch any converter clutch material before it gets sent back to fester in the rotating parts of the trans.

That's a good gauge for a mount with a 25lb bypass valve.

 

[Tempest]

Thanks again Gary.

I was looking at back mount gauges on line and all of them have a max operating temp of ~140F. That's not very hot in this town, especially for ATF. Do you think it would really matter?

I'll probably change the element every year assuming the gauge is good.

Right now I'm planing on going with the gauge in the pic above since it has a track record of working. $25 delivered.

On a side note: Could the filter head be used as a flush opening for the tranny? Just take the filter off and put a bucket under it while @ idle?

 

[Gary Allan]

I've used air gauges for oil pressure gauges. I never knew their temp rating. I'd use it ..but I'd also be checking it often for the first few weeks for weepage/seepage and periodically after my confidence grew. I'm always looking at stuff anyway ..so it's not all that much of an inconvenience.

Many temp ratings are indexed at FSD ..or max pressure. For example, schedule 40 (or was it 80) CPVC in 8" was rated at over 500 psi working pressure ..but @ 70F. As you went above 70F ..the pressure rating dropped. We frequently operated at 165F and, for brief excursions, @ 200F. Luckily, it was at about 30 lbs of pressure

Most of your operation will be at or near 0 PSI ..unless the stuff is very cold ..if you see what I mean. I would have thrown it on there without thinking

Yes, you can use the filter mount as a drain point. If located correctly/conveniently, it will work just fine. You may find it just as easy to unhook the line to/from it from whatever hose barb and do it that way :shrug:

 

[Trucku]

Quote:

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On a side note: Could the filter head be used as a flush opening for the tranny? Just take the filter off and put a bucket under it while @ idle?

---

That's how I added fluid to my tranny when I changed my filter for the first time. I connected clear hosing to the 3/4 16 perma-cool nipple. I had to pump it in slowly or fluid would come out other open end of mount.

For a perma-cool setup you can screw this onto the mount and route your hoses accordingly for drain and fill

 

[Tempest]

I probably won't have time (or the gauge) this weekend, I'll try and make it next.

Should I use Teflon tape on the reducers/hose nipple fittings? Are the tight 90 degree brass elbows OK in case I need them? I picked up 1">.5" adaptors today at an indi hardware store today...Big Boxes' stopped at 3/4"!

Trucku: Good idea, but the filter head I have is 1" - 12 thread, so the Permacool is out on this one.

 

[Gary Allan]

Anything with threads needs either tape or dope of some kind. Right angle fittings are just fine in this application.

The Home Depot has most reducer bushings that you need if you're willing to use steel. Most Home Depots ..anyway. Apparently in Queens ..they're always in style ..but always out of stock.

 

[Trucku]

Queens Sucks!