Autorx site and high mileage oils
- Thread starter kloog
- Start date
- Status
High Mileage Oil,s use "Seal Swelling Additives" thats not how to stop a leak as the swelling weakens the seal material.
Originally Posted By: strombony
what the? ???????????????????????????????????????????
And every major oil manufacturer wants me to think HM oil is good for my engine.
what the? ???????????????????????????????????????????
And every major oil manufacturer wants me to think HM oil is good for my engine.
Schaeffer's doesn't have High Mile in their line-up.
Frank, if you would be so kind, please explain the the difference in the mechanisms between ARX seal rejuvination and HM oils.
In other words, how is ARX seal swelling more kind to seals than HM oil seal swelling?
In other words, how is ARX seal swelling more kind to seals than HM oil seal swelling?
I am interested in this as well. I just put maxlife in my GF's SUV and my truck. I'm not worried because of the many good reports I have heard on this website from people that use Maxlife. But if there is a possibility of long term damage I would like to know.
There is a seal swelling additive you can add to your oil and it really helps, for a while. After a few thousand miles of great performance the seals fail. This additive is used by used car mechanics because they know they have to get a car ready for sale and they know that by the time the problem surfaces the car will be long gone. If using a HM oil works and helps to reduce oil consumption your car is no ready to be traded in. This additive is used in racing engines to make the new seals work better but we all know that they will be easy to replace because the heads get a lot of attention. I've pulled seals treated this way and they are easy to turn inside out because they get pretty soft. This is with a mix a lot stronger than the HM oils but it's the same idea. I think that cleaning the seals with Auto-Rx is a better idea then HM oil.
Originally Posted By: mcrn
But if there is a possibility of long term damage I would like to know.
There shouldnt be any risk of damage long term, otherwise I dont think Valvoline would be selling it. A snake oil product off the shelf on the other hand might be a long term risk.
But if there is a possibility of long term damage I would like to know.
There shouldnt be any risk of damage long term, otherwise I dont think Valvoline would be selling it. A snake oil product off the shelf on the other hand might be a long term risk.
Originally Posted By: Frank
High Mileage Oil,s use "Seal Swelling Additives" thats not how to stop a leak as the swelling weakens the seal material.
This is quite a statement. Can't let this go. Bruce, Mola and other tribs and experts, is this true? Do HM oils damage seals?
High Mileage Oil,s use "Seal Swelling Additives" thats not how to stop a leak as the swelling weakens the seal material.
This is quite a statement. Can't let this go. Bruce, Mola and other tribs and experts, is this true? Do HM oils damage seals?
Last edited:
I'm not an expert, but here goes.
I would like Frank to post evidence to back up his statement.
I have read of instances on this forum where members have found a particular grade OR brand of oil slows or stops leaks or makes the ticking sound or start up noise go away.
Its a matter of finding the correct oil for your particular engine and driving style and conditions of use etc. Of course here are excepts and some engine work is required to fix things, or Auto-RX may be the only answer.
There are some strong advocates of MaxLife HM oils due to their performance and make up. Some are upto 33% PAO.
An interesting point made once before, "what happens to the engine seals after the use of HM oils is discontinued ?". I guess once you start using HM oils them don't stop.
Perhaps the HM oil manufacturers are utilsing the swell properties within the oil make up to the maximum limit and potential before seal fail occurs.
I would like Frank to post evidence to back up his statement.
I have read of instances on this forum where members have found a particular grade OR brand of oil slows or stops leaks or makes the ticking sound or start up noise go away.
Its a matter of finding the correct oil for your particular engine and driving style and conditions of use etc. Of course here are excepts and some engine work is required to fix things, or Auto-RX may be the only answer.
There are some strong advocates of MaxLife HM oils due to their performance and make up. Some are upto 33% PAO.
An interesting point made once before, "what happens to the engine seals after the use of HM oils is discontinued ?". I guess once you start using HM oils them don't stop.
Perhaps the HM oil manufacturers are utilsing the swell properties within the oil make up to the maximum limit and potential before seal fail occurs.
Last edited:
i always thought ARX cleaned and removed deposits and debris, and then the natural petroleum compounds in dino would 'swell' the seals, not something in ARX itself.
I just called the MOTOR OIL POLICE, and hopefully they will arrive shortly to settle this.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,798
Here's how I understand it. The failure of oil seals is distortion due to hardening from deposits/varnish. They're no longer pliable. Auto-Rx removes said hardening shells. Seal becomes pliable again. Relaxes ..forms a better seal.
..and ..as far as HM swelling properties I believe Bruce said (I could be mistaken) that the seal will retreat in time after the seal swelling agent is not present. That is, if you switch, your seal will not remain swelled.
..and ..as far as HM swelling properties I believe Bruce said (I could be mistaken) that the seal will retreat in time after the seal swelling agent is not present. That is, if you switch, your seal will not remain swelled.
MolaKule
Staff member
HM oils, as well as standard oils, use various compounds to swell seals. HM oils and ATF transmission fluids use a bit more seal swellers in concentration in an attempt to swell older seals.
ARX is a combination of esters that cleans the sludge from seals and then conditions them in a slow, methodical way.
Too much seal swelling will cause the seal lips to wear at an accelerated rate. Howwever, and IMHO, I don't think a conscience formulator or company would use a high concentration of seal swellers that would damage seals.
You guys need to read more and argue less.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/additives-ii-seal-swell.41163/
ARX is a combination of esters that cleans the sludge from seals and then conditions them in a slow, methodical way.
Too much seal swelling will cause the seal lips to wear at an accelerated rate. Howwever, and IMHO, I don't think a conscience formulator or company would use a high concentration of seal swellers that would damage seals.
You guys need to read more and argue less.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/additives-ii-seal-swell.41163/
From a Mobil patent: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6713438.html
"Esters and Other Base Oil Components
In addition to the two polymeric components and the low viscosity basestock component, the low viscosity basestock may also comprise other liquid components of comparable viscosity, in the range of 1.5 to 12 cSt, either mineral or synthetic in origin in order to achieve the desired combination of properties in the finished lubricant. For example, when the PAOs, which are highly paraffinic in character, are used as the principal basestock components, it may be desirable to utilize another component which possesses additional chemical functionality (e.g. aromatic, ester, ether, alcohol, etc.) in order to confer the desired additive solvency and seal swell characteristics. Certain additives used in oils contain aromatic groups, and for adequate solvency, some aromatic character in the basestock may be required, even though aromatics, generally, do not lead to optimum lubricant performance in themselves. Additive solvency and seal swell characteristics may be secured by the use of esters such as the esters of dibasic acids with monoalkanols and the polyol esters of monocarboxylic acids...."
"Additive Package
In addition to the low viscosity basestock components, the viscoelastic polymer and the high molecular weight polymeric thickener, the present oils will also include an additive package to impart or enhance the desired performance properties of the finished oil. These additives and the overall package will generally be conventional in type for a lubricant of mineral or synthetic origin, depending upon the type of basestock used. The types of additive which may normally be required include, for example, the following: (1) oxidation inhibitors, (2) dispersants, (3) detergents, (4) corrosion inhibitors, (5) metal deactivators, (6) anti-wear agents, (7) extreme pressure additives, (8) pour point depressants, (9) viscosity index improvers (VII), (10) seal compatibility agents, (11) friction modifiers and (12) defoamants."
"Seal compatibility agents will normally be required as the highly paraffinic nature of the preferred basestocks makes it necessary to use this additive to meet seal compatibility specifications. Additives of this type are commercially available, for example, as various aromatic esters, and may be used in conventional amounts, typically from 0.1 to 5 percent of the total lubricant, usually from 0.5 to 2 percent, depending on the actual composition."
"Esters and Other Base Oil Components
In addition to the two polymeric components and the low viscosity basestock component, the low viscosity basestock may also comprise other liquid components of comparable viscosity, in the range of 1.5 to 12 cSt, either mineral or synthetic in origin in order to achieve the desired combination of properties in the finished lubricant. For example, when the PAOs, which are highly paraffinic in character, are used as the principal basestock components, it may be desirable to utilize another component which possesses additional chemical functionality (e.g. aromatic, ester, ether, alcohol, etc.) in order to confer the desired additive solvency and seal swell characteristics. Certain additives used in oils contain aromatic groups, and for adequate solvency, some aromatic character in the basestock may be required, even though aromatics, generally, do not lead to optimum lubricant performance in themselves. Additive solvency and seal swell characteristics may be secured by the use of esters such as the esters of dibasic acids with monoalkanols and the polyol esters of monocarboxylic acids...."
"Additive Package
In addition to the low viscosity basestock components, the viscoelastic polymer and the high molecular weight polymeric thickener, the present oils will also include an additive package to impart or enhance the desired performance properties of the finished oil. These additives and the overall package will generally be conventional in type for a lubricant of mineral or synthetic origin, depending upon the type of basestock used. The types of additive which may normally be required include, for example, the following: (1) oxidation inhibitors, (2) dispersants, (3) detergents, (4) corrosion inhibitors, (5) metal deactivators, (6) anti-wear agents, (7) extreme pressure additives, (8) pour point depressants, (9) viscosity index improvers (VII), (10) seal compatibility agents, (11) friction modifiers and (12) defoamants."
"Seal compatibility agents will normally be required as the highly paraffinic nature of the preferred basestocks makes it necessary to use this additive to meet seal compatibility specifications. Additives of this type are commercially available, for example, as various aromatic esters, and may be used in conventional amounts, typically from 0.1 to 5 percent of the total lubricant, usually from 0.5 to 2 percent, depending on the actual composition."
Thank you officers.
I salute our brave MOTOR OIL POLICE.
A job well done.
I salute our brave MOTOR OIL POLICE.
A job well done.
MolaKule what happens when you stop using HM oil? Do your seal shrink back again?
- Status
Similar threads
