Automatic transmission dipsticks disappearing

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
Another fine example of the free market at work. I think that the AT dipstick is following the manual transmission to the same retirement village where the window crank lives. For my dollar, electric windows, automatic transmissions, and dipsticklessness are not improvements.



My thoughts EXACTLY!

Is the shift to move towards nonuser checked fluids because the owners don't check or because it means the dealers will make more money...

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Originally Posted By: Vstrom
My 2011 Toyota (with Aisin trans) has no dipstick- there is a procedure to check the level that requires the transmission oil to be at a specific temp and removing a plug on the pan. If a little dribbles out you are good, if not more is added via a fill plug higher up.
Apparently some less skilled DIY'ers have ruined their trans by removing the drain plug, which looks a little like the check plug. They first wondered why 3 quarts over, and then were puzzled when the trans failed....


That kinda sucks.

div>


That trans SUCKS.

 

[wirelessF]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
That trans SUCKS.


What vehicle you had that trans in? It was used in a lot of early toyota 4 and 6 cyl vehicles and some jeeps as I recall.

I have a toyota tundra v8 with that trans and by looking at its earlier applications and user issues I knew that it was not designed for this engine.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
That trans SUCKS.


What vehicle you had that trans in? It was used in a lot of early toyota 4 and 6 cyl vehicles and some jeeps as I recall.

I have a toyota tundra v8 with that trans and by looking at its earlier applications and user issues I knew that it was not designed for this engine.
Well, I've been dealing with it off and on for the past fifteen years. It's smooth but it sure does suck down a lot of power, and creates a ton of heat.

 

[taurus_sable]

transmission fluid does burn and age.

the trend of eliminating dipsticks virtually makes it impossible for the independent mechanics to drain and fill the transmission(via cooler line). it sucks.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
That trans SUCKS.


What vehicle you had that trans in? It was used in a lot of early toyota 4 and 6 cyl vehicles and some jeeps as I recall.

I have a toyota tundra v8 with that trans and by looking at its earlier applications and user issues I knew that it was not designed for this engine.
Well, I've been dealing with it off and on for the past fifteen years. It's smooth but it sure does suck down a lot of power, and creates a ton of heat.


Well, power loss goes into heat, that makes sense; but if it doesn't fail... ? A340's are reputedly pretty bulletproof.

Something I've been wondering about lately is why high temps are bad. It's a good thing to get engine oil temp up, at least to the boiling point of water. Water is a byproduct of combustion, hence an oil temp of that makes sense. Automatics are decently sealed, and no combustion to deal with; but wouldn't running around 212F likewise be a good thing? Assuming below any critical point of burning clutches/oil breaking down too fast, etc.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: supton

Something I've been wondering about lately is why high temps are bad. It's a good thing to get engine oil temp up, at least to the boiling point of water. Water is a byproduct of combustion, hence an oil temp of that makes sense. Automatics are decently sealed, and no combustion to deal with; but wouldn't running around 212F likewise be a good thing? Assuming below any critical point of burning clutches/oil breaking down too fast, etc.


Oxidation and other chemical reaction rates increase rapidly for fairly meager rises in temperature. On top of that, any other components inside the AT (and every one Ive seen has wires, plastics, etc. immersed in the fluid) will also have a degradation at the same kind of rate. On top of that, who knows about the binders or chemistry of friction materials and other stuff in there?

 

[actionstan]

My Forte doesn't have a dipstick, and I hate that it doesnt.

The fluid level check procedure is to get the transmission to a certain temp range, remove the check bolt, if alot flows out, its overfilled, if a small steady stream comes out its just right, and if nothing comes out, its too low.

Thats all very subjective, what i call a thin steady stream, someone else my consider it a thick heavy stream... to me this seems a good way for the wrong fluid level to be added.

My plan is - when the time comes, drain as much as i can via the drain bolt, let it cool down to room temp, measure it, and add exactly that much in, i wont fool with some stupid check procedure.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
transmission fluid does burn and age.

the trend of eliminating dipsticks virtually makes it impossible for the independent mechanics to drain and fill the transmission(via cooler line). it sucks.



Yup. A lot of vehicles, you break the seal on those cooler lines, they'll leak forever too.


The loss of transmission dipsticks is for a few reasons. One, 'lifetime fluid' means lower cost of ownership, which rates them higher with Consumer Reports for the idiots that read CR. Apparently, enough people take stock in this that the manufacturers are manipulating things to make themselves look better. Secodnly, however, is as others suggested, the 'lifetime' of the trans fluid is now rated at the expected lifetime of the transmission - 100k. 3rd, and really, something the manufacturers could care less about, but it's an added bonus for them - specialty fluids are going to be harder for the average DIY'er or indy mechanic to get correct, and the lack of a dipstick or drain/fill procedure helps to keep them from screwing up.


Whats even worse, is some of the newer cars without ENGINE DIPSTICKS! Some of the new BMW's - no engine dipstick. The I-Drive system has an oil level monitor on it, and you need a GT1 to plug in and reset the oil level monitor & oil service system when performing an oil change. A friends shop just told me about doing brakes on a new, I think it was a new 1 series, and they had to have a special BMW tool connected to a special BMW service network to be able to change rear brake pads.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: supton

Something I've been wondering about lately is why high temps are bad. It's a good thing to get engine oil temp up, at least to the boiling point of water. Water is a byproduct of combustion, hence an oil temp of that makes sense. Automatics are decently sealed, and no combustion to deal with; but wouldn't running around 212F likewise be a good thing? Assuming below any critical point of burning clutches/oil breaking down too fast, etc.


Oxidation and other chemical reaction rates increase rapidly for fairly meager rises in temperature. On top of that, any other components inside the AT (and every one Ive seen has wires, plastics, etc. immersed in the fluid) will also have a degradation at the same kind of rate. On top of that, who knows about the binders or chemistry of friction materials and other stuff in there?


Fair enough, BUT my TDi has wires in the oil too, running to the injectors, and the valve cover is plastic too, as is the oil filter whatever-it's-called. OTOH few run engine oil out to 30k, while ATF is expected to last much longer... Probably ultimately related to amount of moisture going into the oil, and the oil being formulated to deal with it (and all the metal bits too).

 

[johnsmellsalot]

I have never seen a vehicle that has a lifetime transmission fluid. Most cars and trucks, such as the Ford F150, have check plugs instead of dipsticks. The check plugs are similar to a differential.

Some cars don't require fluid changes if the vehicle is driven in normal conditions; but only 20% of people drive in normal conditions.

 

[keith]

My '99 Cadillac STS had a dash readout for ATF life remaining. It said 100%, regardless of how many miles I drove. The engine oil life indicator did decrease. Ironically, the engine died just past 100K miles, leaking head gasket. The cost of a Northstar timecert repair wasn't worth it, so I scrapped the car. I got just about exactly 100K miles out of that transmission, as GM intended.

 

[supton]

I'd be peeved to no end with 100k life. I'm not even sure that counts as halfway to the grave.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: keith
My '99 Cadillac STS had a dash readout for ATF life remaining. It said 100%, regardless of how many miles I drove. The engine oil life indicator did decrease. Ironically, the engine died just past 100K miles, leaking head gasket. The cost of a Northstar timecert repair wasn't worth it, so I scrapped the car. I got just about exactly 100K miles out of that transmission, as GM intended.


Those 4T80-E transmissions are very stout in the Northstar-powered cars. My family had a '97 SLS. Mom bought it with only 35k miles on it and then I bought it from her and then my brother bought it from me. It had over 180,000 miles when he traded it on a new Cadillac, and the transmission fluid had not been changed once. I couldn't swear that it was original, but at the very least, that fluid had nearly 150,000 miles on it. Funny thing is, the transmission shifted great the whole time.

 

[artificialist]

I don't know if my Dual Clutch transmission is considered an automatic or not, but no Mitsubishi like this uses as dipstick. It is another case where you have to measure what you drain out and then add an equal amount to refill the transmission.

 

[Ram01]

A automatic tranny needs only 3 full flushes in its lifetime

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Ram01
A automatic tranny needs only 3 full flushes in its lifetime


How do you come up with that number?

 

[SHOZ]

My son's 2009 4 cyl Malibu doesn't have a dipstick. It needs the fluid changed every 50k per the manual. There is a fill plug much like on a manual. You can also fill it through the vent on top I have read.

We need to do a fluid flush on it. I was planning on just cutting the rubber cooler lines and let the car pump it out.

 

[oldhp]

No more vacuum modulators to go bad and let fluid get sucked into engine, or leak is a good thing. All electronic shifting with ECU controlled torque management does help on wear & tear on trans. My Equinox sometimes sounds like it is a manual trans the way it lets up on throttle between gear shifts, and it is normal. If it isn't leaking its ok, right? Well, if..it was correctly filled from the factory. Because you know the dealership doesn't check it before you drive it off the lot.
I agree it should have a dipstick.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Ram01
A automatic tranny needs only 3 full flushes in its lifetime


How do you come up with that number?


The same place he got his extensive scientific knowledge on Xw-20 oils.