You don't work for RR for 15 years and not learn a few things.
Auto teacher steered class from using pennzoil
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And you don't learn everything either - apparently knowing how not to pass myths wasn't something he has picked up on.
Come on now, some of you guys are going after this guy becuase he is a TEACHER.
Most of the auto shop guys are MECHANICS first and foremost, and not your typical classroom teacher.
He did what 50% of the people on this board do, and probably about 60% of mechanics at your local garage: used anecdotal evidence (and not oil analysis) to support his opinions.
Now if he starts to teach you to remove crank pulleys by prying with a screw driver, then by all means, bash away. But most consumers develop a brand loyalty or disloyalty based on some anecdotal story.
Most of the auto shop guys are MECHANICS first and foremost, and not your typical classroom teacher.
He did what 50% of the people on this board do, and probably about 60% of mechanics at your local garage: used anecdotal evidence (and not oil analysis) to support his opinions.
Now if he starts to teach you to remove crank pulleys by prying with a screw driver, then by all means, bash away. But most consumers develop a brand loyalty or disloyalty based on some anecdotal story.
You left out the second line.
Those who can't do teach.
Those who can teach criticize.
yep, like how to re-build every mechanical component because it wasn't assembled properly at the factory....
that just when you think you have stopped the oil/water dust leaks, another one starts somewhere....
that Lucas is a really evil electrical component company that was set up by the Soviets during the cold war to bring about the downfall of Western Capitalism, and nearly succeded....
that Land Rover was infiltrated by Lucas moles intent on bringing about the down fall of Western Capitalisnm, and nearly succeeded by bankrupting British Leyland, then the Rover Group, and nearly crippling BMW when they bought the Rover group in the early ninties....
that the Lucas moles that infiltrated the British car industry don't realise that the Cold War is over. Look at how Fords Premier Atomotive Group (Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin ) is bleeding the parent company dry...
that Lucas is really, really evil...
that when a Land Rover stops leaking it's empty...
and therefore you learn nothing about extended drains, etc, 'cause everything is regularly topped off...
Rick.
I used 100% Pennzoil in the 70's on my '69 Camaro. After I had it for around 60-K miles or so..I removed the valve covers to adjust the lifters. It was spotless.
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I too ran my 1985 Honda Accord exclusively on Pennzoil 10W-40 for 180,000 miles. I also used this oil in the transmission. That car never had a bit of problem from using the yellow bottled product. I'd do a valve adjustment on the 12 valve engine at 30,000 mile intervals and I never saw anything out of the ordinary.
I personally feel that the key is the level of attention people pay to their equipment. You simply can't hire the routine maintenance to be completed on your vehicles and expect them to remain in 'as new' serviceable condition. It does take some owner involvement.
I personally feel that the key is the level of attention people pay to their equipment. You simply can't hire the routine maintenance to be completed on your vehicles and expect them to remain in 'as new' serviceable condition. It does take some owner involvement.
Confronting a teacher is not a good way to try to succeed in a class. I heard the same sludge stories about Quaker State and Pennzoil in the early eighties. I used Quaker State at the time in my old used vehicles. I rebuilt the engine in my 72 Chevy truck in the early nineties, because of "round cam lobes" and a broken plastic teeth on the cam gear. That engine was very sludged up. Dont know how much can be attributed to the oil I used, as I dont know what was used in it before I got it. But it convinced me.
Meant to say:
Those who can't do teach.
Those who can't teach criticize.
Gettings ones knickers in a knot over one error a teacher makes is kind of silly. No one has all the answers. Learn what you can from each teacher and learn to separate fact from fiction without getting upset about it.
My auto shop teacher from 35 years ago advocated changing the oil every 1000 miles and used Castrol himself, but told us that any brand was ok, just dont mix them because the color dyes would conflct and cause problems. He had been worked for Citroen (but drove a Chevy) before becoming a teacher.
Heck, I'd just show him a handful of good UOAs for Pennzoil from recent years, and suggest that perhaps they fixed things some time around or before 1990.
Mention that you continue to value his opinions, but feel that this oil maker has cleaned up their act.
That being said, if a woman burns me once, I won't be back to her. He is allowed to feel the same way about oil companies, I suppose.
Mention that you continue to value his opinions, but feel that this oil maker has cleaned up their act.
That being said, if a woman burns me once, I won't be back to her. He is allowed to feel the same way about oil companies, I suppose.
Johnny, pm the guy to get an address and send him a new PZ promotional video. I'm sure you have resources to get one. PZ did go into outer space, so that should impress some.quote:
Originally posted by Johnny:
I thought you said he was a teacher
I would teach that certain engines and operating outside certain normal parameters cause sludge and not the oil itself if it meets spec. I hear these stories all the time about PZ, QS, and Castrol simply because they are the most highly popular around here.
You usually have to did deeper down into the sludge to determine what caused it.... e.g. poor design, fuel dilution, bad themostats, egr, pcv...
Several of my Dad's buddies won't use Pennzoil becaue they say it has a "foaming problem."
Interstingly, these guys don't know one another, so they "heard" it from different sources...
Interstingly, these guys don't know one another, so they "heard" it from different sources...
For what it is worth when I moved from Germany to the USA I was told the same thing by many older mechanics!"Stay away from Penszoil and Quaker State they will sludge up an engine." No not knowing what I know now i stayed away from them and used Castrol Regular oil and Mobil-1 synthetic oil for the most part. I have used Penzoil synthetic and LL and have not had any problems.
I have found that their is usualy some truth in a myth especialy the ones that happend long before the internet. Oil 15-20 years ago was nothinglike todays oils. Most oils in the 1980's would sludge easily if you pushed them hard or tried an extended drain etc......
I have found that their is usualy some truth in a myth especialy the ones that happend long before the internet. Oil 15-20 years ago was nothinglike todays oils. Most oils in the 1980's would sludge easily if you pushed them hard or tried an extended drain etc......
Old habits die hard. To this day I cannot bring myself to buy Pennzoil. Out of 14 techs in our shop, not one of them would run Pennzoil. Those 4.6s with sludged up oil pickups, yellow Pennzoil filters and Pennzoil reminder stickers from the "Quickie Lube" just leave a lasting impression, especially on our heavy line guys. Running shop joke: "I found those Pennstar molecules", and then they would show you the oil pickup screen.
Lord knows the data supports Pennzoil being a quality product, but like I said, "Old habits die hard".
About cams, we learned early on to never use synthetic to break in flat tappet cams. Once you got the cam broken in (usually with light "break in springs" and sloppy amounts of nasty gray moly lube), you were good to go with whatever oil you preferred.
Lord knows the data supports Pennzoil being a quality product, but like I said, "Old habits die hard".
About cams, we learned early on to never use synthetic to break in flat tappet cams. Once you got the cam broken in (usually with light "break in springs" and sloppy amounts of nasty gray moly lube), you were good to go with whatever oil you preferred.
I feel Pennzoil makes a quality product nowdays but, 15 to 30 years ago I have serious doubts with it being the quality of today. For those of us who have seen the sludge the excuses will be you didn't keep your engine tuned, or you didn't change the oil at the proper interval, or something must be wrong with your engine etc... How can this be when everything was done correctly and at the right time? Believe me there is some truth to the old Pennzoil stories. Some folks just won't believe the truth.
He should ask Valvoline for a new tape.
ever(?) saw one!
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