Auto dealership tricks and scams

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No offense but i HATE! salesmen and car dealers,with trade in's they think your stuff is junk and there's is the holy grail of vehicles they give you nothing for trade in's(yea yea i know they need to make money)and most times are rude when you press them for a deal and seem to want to just get rid of you and find the next sucker.

i buy from private sellers always!
 
I have purchased no less than 20 new cars/trucks in my lifetime and of those purchases only 2 of the salesmen do I consider to have morals and be honest. The overall issue is not usually the salesmen because the deal is not made with them, but with the finance person + the dealership management has one goal in mind--separate you from your money to the largest extent possible.

Step into my lair said the spider to the fly--of the 20 finance people that I have dealt with, 1 of them seemed to be honest applying extra rebates and promotions even after the deal was agreed upon.

It amazes me that in 2010 how this is the last bastion of sales in this manner. Everywhere else the price tag on the item is the actual price and not a starting point for negotiation. The whole system needs a revamp...
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I have purchased no less than 20 new cars/trucks in my lifetime

20??
crazy2.gif
im in the wrong biz...
 
+1 to 2010 FX4 well said,that sums it up perfectly.I tried to sell for a Ford dealer two years ago and lasted 5months,it is just terrible the stuff they do to people they get them to a point where they are vunerable and then get all they can.The add on's that take place in the finance office are really bad,so many people dont understand what they are buying they just pay attention to the monthly payment amount,then low and behold they have buyer remorse the next day when they realize every thing that happened.
 
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
With due respect to decent car salesmen. I was one for less than a year about 9 years ago, and tried to be upstanding.......but the dealership tries to corrupt you.....

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/auto-dealership-tricks-and-scams.aspx


I feel your pain, and then when you start producing, constantly hitting bonuses, they turn around and start screwing you too! Charge backs, changing pay plans, etc., I could go on and on.

Now any opportunity I get to help someone buy a car, get the very best price, and leave the least amount of profit for the dealer I do it. I've helped 3 neighbors and my brother in the last 6 months, LOL. One of my many favorite tricks is getting the used car manager to think a cash paying customer is financing the car. Then about 3 weeks after the car is on the road have the person who intended to pay cash from the beginning pay the loan off. LOL! Everyone from the owner, to the GM, to the F&I manager, to the salesman gets banged that way! There are lots and lots of things that can be done to hurt their bottom line, and turn the tables around a bit, especially with a used car. LOL
 
I don't care much for car salesmen or dealerships in general. They will try anything to rip you off and make money off of you with any number of dishonest methods. Plus they mark their car up so high and offer you such a lowball figure for your trade it's ridiculous. When you figure in negative equity, overallowance, creative financing at crazy high interest rates, selling worthless and useless add-ons that you don't need like $500.00 for treating the upholstery with Scotchgard (you can buy a can of Scotchgard for 5 bucks and do the exact same thing yourself), paint protection, $999.00 "dealer prep fees" (this is nothing more than typing the paperwork and washing the car before they give it to you), extended warranties that don't really cover anything and are a nightmare to try to actually use if the car breaks down, the list of worthless things they add on to make more profit is endless. Some of it should be illegal. They way car dealers will bury an unsuspecting customer in a crazy high interest rate and payments they can't afford on a car that won't be worth even half what they paid for it if they do manage to pay it off is just plain criminal.

I hope to be able to take the very best care that I can of my truck and my gf's car and keep them both running the best that I can so hopefully neither one of us has to buy a car anytime in the near or far future. That's why I read BITOG every day and try to learn as much as I can. I really appreciate all the advice and help I receive here.
 
Quote:
One of my many favorite tricks is getting the used car manager to think a cash paying customer is financing the car. Then about 3 weeks after the car is on the road have the person who intended to pay cash from the beginning pay the loan off. LOL! Everyone from the owner, to the GM, to the F&I manager, to the salesman gets banged that way!
That is pretty good. I always tell them I can get a better finance deal at the credit union, which unless they have a manufacturer special finance rate is true. Gives them a rate I wouldn't go above. Right now home equity beats CU, so your plan would fit that.
 
I haven't found the experience to be all that bad.
It helps to go in knowing what you'll pay for whatever you're buying.
It also helps to actually know something about the car you're looking at purchasing.
Neither bit of information is hard to come by, in this online age.
It isn't that hard to say no to the various enhancements that the F&I guy tries to get you to agree to.
Don't argue.
Just say no.
If the dealerhip folks think you're a real live buyer, turning around and walking away will often get you a better deal.
In a pefect world, there would be no haggling, just a posted price for the car you want.
I think that the retail auto business will eventually be forced to adopt this model, but it hasn't happened yet.
Imagine how cheaply you could run a car dealership if the only mouths you had to feed were a couple of salaried paperwork writers, and a service department, which should support itself.
This is why you can always get a better price from a little indie used car lot than from the used car lot of a franchised dealer.
Way less overhead.
 
Sayjac-It also depends on your credit score. Basically I take their greed and work it against them when helping someone buy a car.

When a dealer provides financing to someone with less than stellar credit they have an opportunity to really score by "Packing A Deal". The banks have toughened up a bit since I left the business in 2004, they basically screwed themselves with their own greed. But back to my point. A customer comes in with poor credit but credit worthy. A good F&I manager will pack the deal. Packing a deal means getting an approval for more than the customer needs. Then taking the liberty to tell a customer in order for the finance approval they must take the extended warranty, vin etch, and anything else they can sell them to use up the excess money. They tell the customer the bank wants the assurance that if something major goes wrong with the car that the warranty will cover the repair in the event the car buyer doesn't have the money. All half truths, and [censored] to scare the customer. Then a nice example of what Mr. John A. Doe did: His transmission in his used car went 6 months after the purchase, the poor man had no warranty, so he stops paying for the car since he can't drive it. The banks won't take that risk. Makes sense too doesn't it?

Typically people with poor credit are the ones who needed cars the most. The used car department cleaned up doing this. Keep me mind this all went on in the F&I department and had nothing to do with the salesman. The F&I guy was the one making $200K a year, and the biggest thief in dealership. Glad I left the business.

How does this work to a car buyers benefit? Easy the greedy sales manager will have the salesman ask if the customer plans on financing. A simple yes gets them all excited, they can take some of the profit {cash reserve} money and lower the price of the car. Don't forget they are thinking extended warranty and anything else they can ram down your throat. Now get the best price on the car, say no to all the extras when you sit with the F&I guy, and pay the loan off before the first payment is due. Also always leave the smallest deposit possible on a credit card, and if you feel like you are getting screwed in the 11th hour walk and despute the deposit you left with the CC company.

Now if you can't afford to buy the car outright, the above lesson isn't of much help. This is only a small part of what goes on...........LOL

Smart people and people with good credit tend to fare well if they know the game.
 
Ditto here. Once I took emotion out of it and decided I was willing to pay X when I went in. If I am trading, I look for one number, the Out The Door price. I set my target for the out the door number and if they meet or beat it, I write the check.

If it takes more than about 20 minutes to come to a price, then I leave.

When I bought the Vibe, I drove it, mentioned what appeared to be a tire balance issue, negotiated a price contingent on the issue being resolved to my satisfaction. I said I'd be back with my wife as we were going to title it jointly and I refused the offer to take the 254K mile, '94 Geo Prizm on trade for $300.

We came back, I asked them to do the paperwork while we drove it, it was good. oilBabe and I signed the paperwork, and drove away in about 30 minutes. The longest wait was for the salesman to take it down the street to fill it up
smile.gif


I knew what I wanted to pay, and thought I got a good deal, so we wrote the check. No nonsense.

They even honored my request about the license plate frame. I said you can put one on the front, but any on the back will be replaced by my university frame off the Geo.

I sold the Geo for $1200, so that was a win as well! No drama, probably took an hour all told to buy the car.
 
All of these "tricks" and "scams" only work if the consumer involved hasn't done their own due dilligence. Say what you will about the salesman and the dealers, but the truth of the matter is that without stupid uninformed consumers, these deals wouldnt ever get written.

Best advice to avoid scams is to educate yourself. An educated consumer is much harder to seperate from his/her money.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Sayjac-It also depends on your credit score. Basically I take their greed and work it against them when helping someone buy a car.

When a dealer provides financing to someone with less than stellar credit they have an opportunity to really score by "Packing A Deal". The banks have toughened up a bit since I left the business in 2004, they basically screwed themselves with their own greed. But back to my point. A customer comes in with poor credit but credit worthy. A good F&I manager will pack the deal. Packing a deal means getting an approval for more than the customer needs. Then taking the liberty to tell a customer in order for the finance approval they must take the extended warranty, vin etch, and anything else they can sell them to use up the excess money. They tell the customer the bank wants the assurance that if something major goes wrong with the car that the warranty will cover the repair in the event the car buyer doesn't have the money. All half truths, and [censored] to scare the customer. Then a nice example of what Mr. John A. Doe did: His transmission in his used car went 6 months after the purchase, the poor man had no warranty, so he stops paying for the car since he can't drive it. The banks won't take that risk. Makes sense too doesn't it?

Typically people with poor credit are the ones who needed cars the most. The used car department cleaned up doing this. Keep me mind this all went on in the F&I department and had nothing to do with the salesman. The F&I guy was the one making $200K a year, and the biggest thief in dealership. Glad I left the business.

How does this work to a car buyers benefit? Easy the greedy sales manager will have the salesman ask if the customer plans on financing. A simple yes gets them all excited, they can take some of the profit {cash reserve} money and lower the price of the car. Don't forget they are thinking extended warranty and anything else they can ram down your throat. Now get the best price on the car, say no to all the extras when you sit with the F&I guy, and pay the loan off before the first payment is due. Also always leave the smallest deposit possible on a credit card, and if you feel like you are getting screwed in the 11th hour walk and despute the deposit you left with the CC company.

Now if you can't afford to buy the car outright, the above lesson isn't of much help. This is only a small part of what goes on...........LOL

Smart people and people with good credit tend to fare well if they know the game.


Agreed...The first words from anyones mouth walking into the F&I office should be, "No offense, but no croak and choke for me please". They should get the message that you arent some chump for the fleecing.
 
I agree that those with poor or as you say, less stellar credit can end up getting really hosed. That plus buying based on payment rather bottom line price is a dealer's/salesperson's dream. Fortunate not to have the former apply or not understanding the folly of the latter.

Never really had any issue, excepting once, with the notorious F&I guy because I knew what I was getting before I walked in his door. The exception, was when my son was purchasing his 05 Explorer with then national employee pricing. F&I guy was real donkey, trying to sell extended warranty and then this and that. Kept saying no, no, no. Guy wasn't going to take NO for an answer. Also wouldn't say which bank he was going to use for the financing, even though we had already shopped/agreed on the rate. Finally walked out the door with my son and to the salesman, told him, you're going to lose this sale. Bingo. New F&I guy came over from the joined Toyota store, no more [censored]. Paper work wrapped up in no time.

Biggest thing I've learned, and passed to my son, you must be willing to walk at any time. And, internet buying seems to have changed the equation for the better for some savvy buyers.
 
The emotion part should be over with by the time you set foot in a dealership to buy.
As LS2JSTS posted, you should have done your homework before setting forth.
Once you have decided what you're going to buy, and what you'll pay for it, the game doesn't work for the dealership.
With a used car, it works in exctly the same way.
Know what it should cost, and use its known mechanical faults (all cars have them) to show the seller that you have some idea of what to expect from the prospective purchase.
For example, with most used Hondas, there is the mandatory timing belt service, or for a 2.5 DOHC Subie, there is both the timing belt and the probable head gasket failure.
Gain knowledge, and use it to control the seller, rather than letting the seller control you.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Biggest thing I've learned, and passed to my son, you must be willing to walk at any time. And, internet buying seems to have changed the equation for the better for some savvy buyers.

That is sound advice, remember it is a car you are buying, there are others. That's why I suggested the smallest deposit on a credit card. That makes walking a lot easier, and the CC compaines know for the most part car dealerships are a rip off. You'd be amazed how people would leave cash deposits and how hard it was to get back if they tried to walk.
 
the first thing is i have NO love for auto salesmen, or dealers.
i wouldnt walk across the street to save there life. sorry i was trying to post somthing but i was remembering wrong. sorry
 
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I feel for everyone going to buy a car. I am fortunate that my GM discount is a fixed price that the dealer cannot alter. I never trade nor finance my vehicles with a dealer so they can't "get me" in any way. But they do try the extended warranty and paint sealant gimmicks.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I never trade nor finance my vehicles with a dealer so they can't "get me" in any way.

My FX4 was financed at 0.9%; as long as you check ALL of the figures from the bill of sale to the loan paperwork, you can still get a good deal on financing from the dealer. In addition, at year end close, the dealer **usually** has better promotional rates than banks and CUs. An interest rate of 0.9% + 10K off sticker allowed me to make an awesome deal.
 
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