Austin Texas near miss at ABIA

[Tdog02]

Crash averted at Austin airport; FAA, NTSB to investigate​

The Federal Aviation Administration says a FedEx cargo airplane attempting to land at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport had to change course after a second plane was cleared to depart from the same runway. The Boeing 767 cargo airplane was several miles from the airport when it was cleared to land, according to the FAA. But just before it was expected to land, an air traffic controller gave the go-ahead for an airplane operated by Southwest Airlines to take off.

A Southwest 737 was on the runway preparing for take off and a 767 cargo flight was cleared to land on the runway. Within about 75 feet of collision and the 767 prevented a loss of life and property. To the aviation lovers here, how often does this kind of thing happen? What was the issue and was this solely on the ATC who laid this out and directed the 767 to land on the same runway as the 737? I've been watching some vids but still think something happened way beyond normal that contributed to this.

 

[wpod]

Are the pilots / ground people being pushed hard? Machinery is dangerous and big machines are big danger. Airliner are big.

 

[E365]

I think nearly every go-around I’ve done as an airline pilot has been this basic situation. A departing plane ahead of you isn’t airborne yet as you’re approaching the runway to land behind them.

So it’s very common, just not common to get this close.

Based solely on the early info from these two videos….

Southwest apparently was short of the runway, got cleared for takeoff and was informed “traffic 3 mile final”. That’s awfully close for a plane that wasn’t already lined-up on the runway and ready to roll.

My initial speculation is an ATC screw up. Wasn’t paying attention/got distracted/etc.

At 1:15 in the video, FedEx wanted confirmation they were cleared to land. Quite possible that was a round-about way of saying they were suspicious of the spacing and just wanted some reassurance from ATC.

 

[zuluplus30]

Low IFR (roughly 1200RVR) and likely false assumption that SWA would do their traditional rolling departure instead of a breif pause in position the runway. Kudos to the heads up awareness by the FDX crew. They saved a mid-air and likely their own lives. All appearances are an “operational error” on the part of the controller.

You can’t do a squeeze play departure in a 3 mile final in hard IFR. You can barely get that done safely in VFR conditions.

 

[4WD]

Austin? That’s weird

 

[Joel_MD]

Sounds like an ATC screwup, but the SWA pilot should have been paying attention to what's going on.

Once, when I was a student pilot I was flying solo at a controlled field in Minnesota. ATC had cleared me to land, and a minute later I was on short final. Then ATC cleared a good-sized twin to takeoff from the same runway! I was thinking, "Surely the pilot in this big twin sees me," since I was only a quarter mile from the threshold. Nope, this guy taxis out right in front of me. I applied full power and roared right over the top of the other aircraft, probably coming within 30' of hitting. When I announced "going around" over the radio, the stupid controller replied "sorry." That was the second time I heard her make a mistake like that in the course of a few months. Hopefully her ATC career was short-lived.

I know pilots have a lot to think about when they're about to take off, but it's a good practice to keep situational awareness and be aware of the traffic. ATC is comprised of humans, so there will always be mistakes.

 

[97prizm]

Crash averted at Austin airport; FAA, NTSB to investigate​

The Federal Aviation Administration says a FedEx cargo airplane attempting to land at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport had to change course after a second plane was cleared to depart from the same runway. The Boeing 767 cargo airplane was several miles from the airport when it was cleared to land, according to the FAA. But just before it was expected to land, an air traffic controller gave the go-ahead for an airplane operated by Southwest Airlines to take off.

A Southwest 737 was on the runway preparing for take off and a 767 cargo flight was cleared to land on the runway. Within about 75 feet of collision and the 767 prevented a loss of life and property. To the aviation lovers here, how often does this kind of thing happen? What was the issue and was this solely on the ATC who laid this out and directed the 767 to land on the same runway as the 737? I've been watching some vids but still think something happened way beyond normal that contributed to this.

Well from my limited flying experience and my training in my minor. Ground controllers should have handed over the Southwest flight to the tower. Either the Southwest flight taxied out and wasn't ready or the FedEx 767 was alot closer then the tower realized. When I worked at Frontier Airlines one of the A&P instructions worked for Continental back in the day. He said it's amazing how much goes on, yet how few accidents actually happen.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

For this learned aviation lover when there are No cockpit voice expressions from any of the pilots involved that it was that "whew!!! close call" then I graded it was close but not that close... it was an emergency and it was up to the pilots to avoid an accident...

 

[Dave Hess]

Luckily nobody got killed. Did ATC make a mistake ?

 

[Greasymechtech]

I'd wager ATC

Someone needs to put their smart phone down

It is a brain power requiring quick decision making high stress non-stop busy too much overtime type of job. I don't see the younger generations being good at it.

 

[Owen Lucas]

That was the second time I heard her make a mistake like that in the course of a few months. Hopefully her ATC career was short-lived.

I've heard some issues with hiring for ATC, like scoring highly on the acceptance test actually disqualifies you. It's a contentious topic.


"After vectoring the FedEx flight back to the airport for a safe landing, the controller says to the pilot, “You have our apologies. We appreciate your professionalism.”"

- https://nypost.com/2023/02/06/air-t...res-near-miss-between-fedex-southwest-planes/

 

[zuluplus30]

Luckily nobody got killed. Did ATC make a mistake ?

Yes

 

[zuluplus30]

It is a brain power requiring quick decision making high stress non-stop busy too much overtime type of job. I don't see the younger generations being good at it.

I’d argue we’ve seen an unusual amount trainees and brand new certified controllers just up and quit in recent years. Without starting a culture war, there is definitely a generational gap. That being said, I’ve had a few young standout trainees as of recent too.

 

[Cujet]

Without naming names or places, I can tell you that some controllers should not have been hired, and just about every time we encounter them, something is not right. Plenty of others notice this too.

One particular guy mentioned "not a right turn" twice and gave a heading to the left, then proceeded to issue a Brasher warning (call this number) due to our left turn. Hahahaha, ya can't make this stuff up. Good thing it was on Live ATC archives. The bad thing is, it can remain on the pilot's record even with no violation.

Maybe it's time we start asking controllers to "call this number" when they are free....

 

[Tdog02]

Blancoliriochannel

Great explanation of the situation. Along with ATC recordings it explains a lot, even for a novice like myself. I don't think the pilots were at fault.

 

[Dave Hess]

My brother was trying to persuade his daughter to become an ATC.

I told him that it was an absolute terrible idea to go into this field if she can NOT handle stress.

She has average intelligence but simply not a person that could handle ATC demands and responsibilities….. not to mention making zero mistakes on the job. Attention span of a 12 year old = not good for ATC career.

 

[edyvw]

My brother was trying to persuade his daughter to become an ATC.

I told him that it was an absolute terrible idea to go into this field if she can NOT handle stress.

She has average intelligence but simply not a person that could handle ATC demands and responsibilities….. not to mention making zero mistakes on the job. Attention span of a 12 year old = not good for ATC career.

My friend is a retired MIG pilot. He got his son into ATC school and his buddy was the main instructor. He told buddy: If you ever think just for a bit he is not cut for a job, tell him and call me and tell me.
That happened. He told his son: sorry, but you are not going to kill 200-300 people.