Audio converters/rippers [freeware]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
5,153
Location
MW
I am in the process of backing up all of my CD-s to a portable HD.

What software would you guy recommend using for lossless ripping? I have found the WAV format and the Windows media player to be a cumbersome format/application combination.

I would be interested in the .APE format but haven't found any freeware that rips CD-s to .ape format.
 
CDex is free and it should be able to rip to FLAC if you install a FLAC codec. There may be an APE codec for it too, I'm not sure.

EAC is also a good ripper - more features but also more cumbersome.
 
I used to use FLAC, but to be honest I finally stopped archiving stuff in that format, and just do everything compressed, using LAME, VBR V2.

I've gotten over the need for a "perfect copy", knowing that no one can actually hear the difference.
 
Thanks - looks like CDex does have an APE ripper.

The plan is to rip all my CD-s (again) to APE, put it on my portable 1tb drive and use my computer as a full time HTPC since it is already hooked to the TV and the home theater system. I'll use VLC player for both these purposes. Right now I only use Netflix streaming through this HTPC and it's time to up the game.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: JOD
I've gotten over the need for a "perfect copy", knowing that no one can actually hear the difference.


Lots of people can hear the difference.



Lots of people think they can, just like lots of people think they can hear a difference between speaker cables and amplifiers. But overwhelmingly, people who actually do ABX testing of lossless and high rate compressed music can't tell a difference, under perfect listening conditions, and tend to disagree with your conclusion.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: JOD
I've gotten over the need for a "perfect copy", knowing that no one can actually hear the difference.


Lots of people can hear the difference.



Lots of people think they can, just like lots of people think they can hear a difference between speaker cables and amplifiers. But overwhelmingly, people who actually do ABX testing of lossless and high rate compressed music can't tell a difference, under perfect listening conditions, and tend to disagree with your conclusion.


No argument here that *most* cannot tell the difference between (an appropriately high bitrate lossy format) and an uncompressed source. Folks listening on ear buds will never hear it. You said "no one", though; not "most".

Those of us with high quality playback and a discerning ear can tell ten times out of ten, however. (Even those of use who get just as much of a laugh at those who spend $600/ ft. on speaker cable when they could be using coat hangers instead!) Phase nonlinearities, spatial shifting and transient smearing give a lossy compression away pretty obviously.

I produce audio for a living, and I have no issues whatsoever with giving the people I work with (high bitrate; minimum 256kbps) .mp3's for reference and even testing on multiple systems; but the differences between lossy compression and uncompressed audio, albeit subtle, are undeniable. I think lossy formats are *excellent* for casual and mobile listening (as long as they're not DRM'd!) but I would never, ever use lossy formats for archiving anything important, nor for critical listening.
 
I used to use CDEX, Windows Media Player 11 have ripping to MP3 built-in, so I use that now.

uc50ic4more, have you played with AAC v2 ("HE") codec compared to MP3 format for the sake of quality comparison? I really like this newer version, it's great for smashing music down to 64kb/sec and still offering very good quality for mobile devices. Just wondering from those who do this sorta thing for a living how this newer codec stacks up against MP3's encoded at 192k or even 256k...
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

No argument here that *most* cannot tell the difference between (an appropriately high bitrate lossy format) and an uncompressed source. Folks listening on ear buds will never hear it. You said "no one", though; not "most".

Those of us with high quality playback and a discerning ear can tell ten times out of ten, however.


Categorically untrue. Unless of course, you're one in a million.

If you can tell the difference in double blind samples 10 out of 10 times when comparing a well-recorded compressed file to the original, I strongly suggest you go here , because you are the only person capable of such a feat.

Keep in mind, this is ABX testing with people listening intently, often with cans, under ideal conditions listening specifically for artifacts--and listening to brief, 10 seconds clips. In other words, it hardly mimics any listening environment (including a professional one).

As I said, no one can tell a difference, and people who think so are kidding themselves. There's an entire forum dedicated to proving this assumption wrong, and yet no one has been able to do it.

I'll warn you though, if you think the kids around BITOG take their oil seriously, go over to that forum and say "yeah, I can hear a difference". You'll immediately be told you need to post proof, or you'll immediately be banned.... A pretty seriously lot over there...
 
I think part of the issue is whether or not one is listening to a well recorded compressed file. I can tell the difference on occasion (certainly not in a car or anything like that). I have sensitive hearing at high frequencies, but I'm certainly not one in a million. I suspect there are simply a lot of garbage mp3s out there.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
As I said, no one can tell a difference, and people who think so are kidding themselves. There's an entire forum dedicated to proving this assumption wrong, and yet no one has been able to do it.


How convenient that those who cannot tell the difference always seem to take the opinion that those who can are imagining things.

The differences, to anyone who has the ears and/ or the playback equipment capable of revealing them (not JOD, it seems!), is obvious. *Obvious*. Discerning audio is how I make my living, and it is an affront to my craft that the ear bud crowd arrogantly insinuates that their .mp3's and their iThingys are hi-fidelity.

Just because you have convinced yourself that there is not anything to be heard in the way of fidelity above and beyond an .mp3 does not make it tactful for you to dismiss those who can.

Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
I used to use CDEX, Windows Media Player 11 have ripping to MP3 built-in, so I use that now.

uc50ic4more, have you played with AAC v2 ("HE") codec compared to MP3 format for the sake of quality comparison? I really like this newer version, it's great for smashing music down to 64kb/sec and still offering very good quality for mobile devices. Just wondering from those who do this sorta thing for a living how this newer codec stacks up against MP3's encoded at 192k or even 256k...


AAC, like h264 for video, is *amazing*. Like .mp3, it is highly dependent on how much dynamic range, how spread spatially and how fast are the transients in the material; but it does a really, really good job (at the expense of being processor-intensive). I'd use AAC and h264 in a heartbeat if they didn't take forever to render: I only ever use compression at all to deliver rough or approval mixes and edits to clients, and high bitrate .mp3 or 1-pass MPEG4 does the trick well enough.

No lossy compression is going to be able to deliver really top end stereo spatial phase linearity, and none will be able to deliver a truly accurate low end WHOOMP, but at reasonable listening levels on reasonable playback equipment the AAC codec is a monster.

The issue arises, though, that as computer processors become faster and as storage limits are increasing that we need not compress the audio in a lossy way *at all*. Everyone I know in professional audio has been archiving either natively or using on of a handful of lossless formats: FLAC, or lossless Windows Media or Apple formats. I record 24 bit audio at 96KHz and FLAC usually cuts the files sizes in half; as it often does at 16 bit/ 44.1KHz.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: JOD
As I said, no one can tell a difference, and people who think so are kidding themselves. There's an entire forum dedicated to proving this assumption wrong, and yet no one has been able to do it.


How convenient that those who cannot tell the difference always seem to take the opinion that those who can are imagining things.

The differences, to anyone who has the ears and/ or the playback equipment capable of revealing them (not JOD, it seems!), is obvious. *Obvious*. Discerning audio is how I make my living, and it is an affront to my craft that the ear bud crowd arrogantly insinuates that their .mp3's and their iThingys are hi-fidelity.

Just because you have convinced yourself that there is not anything to be heard in the way of fidelity above and beyond an .mp3 does not make it tactful for you to dismiss those who can.

Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
I used to use CDEX, Windows Media Player 11 have ripping to MP3 built-in, so I use that now.

uc50ic4more, have you played with AAC v2 ("HE") codec compared to MP3 format for the sake of quality comparison? I really like this newer version, it's great for smashing music down to 64kb/sec and still offering very good quality for mobile devices. Just wondering from those who do this sorta thing for a living how this newer codec stacks up against MP3's encoded at 192k or even 256k...


AAC, like h264 for video, is *amazing*. Like .mp3, it is highly dependent on how much dynamic range, how spread spatially and how fast are the transients in the material; but it does a really, really good job (at the expense of being processor-intensive). I'd use AAC and h264 in a heartbeat if they didn't take forever to render: I only ever use compression at all to deliver rough or approval mixes and edits to clients, and high bitrate .mp3 or 1-pass MPEG4 does the trick well enough.

No lossy compression is going to be able to deliver really top end stereo spatial phase linearity, and none will be able to deliver a truly accurate low end WHOOMP, but at reasonable listening levels on reasonable playback equipment the AAC codec is a monster.

The issue arises, though, that as computer processors become faster and as storage limits are increasing that we need not compress the audio in a lossy way *at all*. Everyone I know in professional audio has been archiving either natively or using on of a handful of lossless formats: FLAC, or lossless Windows Media or Apple formats. I record 24 bit audio at 96KHz and FLAC usually cuts the files sizes in half; as it often does at 16 bit/ 44.1KHz.


Two simple words: "prove it".

Do some ABX testing and demonstrate that you're that one-in-a-million set of ears. Take Richard Clark up on that million dollar amp challenge while you're at it!

You can say it's an affront to your craft all you want and denigrate the "ear bud crowd", but until you can demonstrate that you can tell a difference, it's all words.

Lots of people say "I can hear a difference". None have reliably proven it, outside of detecting a rare artifact under the most limited circumstances.
 
JOD, certain things will trigger artifacts in the mix. A pair of decent headphones will reveal 'em.

Try listening to the cymbals from Rush or Dream Theater when the rest of the band is revved up, they don't sound right on lower bit rates, or even higher ones often times. Now with quieter music, the differences are less dramatic.

Oh, totally separately, Rush's 2007 release "Snakes & Arrows" was available in limited supply in Dolby 5.1, but you had to use your DVD player to play it. AMAZING! The clarity, mix, etc, made for a wonderful listening experience, especially the "Main Monkey Business" instrumental.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Two simple words: "prove it".


Oh no. I am arguing with a troll. I wish I had my 45 minutes back now.

You win, JOD. You were right all along. All of those microphones that cost more than my car and all of the years I spent refining my ears and my methods were all for naught: Some internet guy who Knows Everything has trumped me and exposed the greatest hoax of all time; that you can remove NINE FLIPPIN' TENTHS of the data in an audio file and no one except ferrel cats can tell the difference (so they *claim*). I cannot believe it but it seems my imagination has simply run rampant on me and what I thought was an accumulation of professional skill and experience was nothing but placebo. JOD knows *facts*, even though they may sound at first like the opinions of whatever you'd call someone who is the opposite of an expert.

Well played! Take note, world: Since uc50ic4more cannot demonstrate proof to some anonymous internet dork that he is able to tell the difference 'twixt lossy audio (LOSSY audio, remember... LOSSY might be the key word, here. There's LOSSLESS compression and LOSSY compression. The LOSSY compression is called LOSSY because... Well, I guess they can't prove it...) and the real deal; that all further declarations to the contrary of JOD are herefore null and void.

JOD WINS! JOD WINS!

Originally Posted By: JOD
Lots of people say "I can hear a difference".


And lots, ahem, say they CAN'T. So what? Just because *your* level of acuity is unrefined does not mean there isn't something out there for you to learn, JOD.

Somewhere, Rudy Van Gelder is crying softly.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

Oh no. I am arguing with a troll. I wish I had my 45 minutes back now....

And lots, ahem, say they CAN'T. So what? Just because *your* level of acuity is unrefined does not mean there isn't something out there for you to learn, JOD.

Somewhere, Rudy Van Gelder is crying softly.


This is pretty much the last resort of internet arguing: name calling following by denigration.

You no nothing of my level of acuity. I'm certainly not going to engage in a peeing contest. It's a simple challenge: prove it.

You can't, so you're going to call me names.

I'm sure a man of your stature should have no problems putting together a proper ABX protocol and providing some proof that you can hear the difference.

As I said, until that, it's just words.
 
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
JOD, certain things will trigger artifacts in the mix. A pair of decent headphones will reveal 'em.



I'm one of the few people I know who has legitimately been able to tell the difference between 320 kbps and lossless though an actual ABX comparison, but it has basically been sitting with a good pair of cans specifically listening for artifacts (such as the one you mentioned), and I can detect the difference about 70% of the time, which is barely statistically significant.

So, in theory, I agree with you. In regular listening though, today's lossy VBR is virtually indistinguishable unless you're sitting down, doing specific ABX testing and trying to show off your golden ears to your friends. 320kbps is totally acceptable for archiving (though as cheap as storage space is, I understand why people insist on lossless archives).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom