Audi OEM vs Fram Titanium Cartridge Filter

[OldCowboy]

After seeing Ascent Filtration's study of oil filters (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...essure-vs-flow-bubble-point-and-burst.334882/) I thought I'd see if there was a visible difference between the Fram Ultra and the OEM oil filter for my Audi A4. The OEM version is a rebranded Mann HU 6013 Z and the Fram Ultra is sold by Advance Auto Parts as the Fram Titanium. Here's a picture of the two side by side:

Both filters have synthetic media and are designed to be used with synthetic oil. The pleats in the Fram filter are backed with a metal screen. Mann says nothing about how their pleats are backed.

The biggest difference I see between the two is that the Fram filter has many more pleats than the Mann filter. From Ascent's study, we can presume that the Fram is 99%+ efficient at 15 microns. Mann provides no information as to the efficiency of their filter.

I currently have a Mann filter in my Audi and am about 1500 miles from the next OC. I'll pull a sample for UOA when I change the oil and use the Fram filter for the next OCI, after which I'll also run a UOA on that oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does the Titanium box list any efficiency info?

 

[DriveHard]

I would not use a FRAM filter in this type of application. Here is my experience.

Fram Ultra FAILURE

Car: BMW X3 Oil: Mobil 1 0w-40 Miles: ~3000 This is my wife's car. We just purchased it this spring with about 77,000 miles on it. When I brought it home, I promptly dumped what was in it and dropped in a Fram Ultra filter and the Mobil 1 European formula oil. Car ran like a top. About a month...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[RooflessVW]

I would not use a FRAM filter in this type of application. Here is my experience.

Fram Ultra FAILURE

Car: BMW X3 Oil: Mobil 1 0w-40 Miles: ~3000 This is my wife's car. We just purchased it this spring with about 77,000 miles on it. When I brought it home, I promptly dumped what was in it and dropped in a Fram Ultra filter and the Mobil 1 European formula oil. Car ran like a top. About a month...

bobistheoilguy.com

Very different design and materials.

 

[drtyler]

Is the Fram made in China or South Korea?

 

[DriveHard]

Very different design and materials.

Can you please provide proof/details? From what I can see, the Fram I experienced a failure on, and the Fram in the picture seem to be very similar construction, relying on melted plastic or small amount of adhesive to hold the caps on.

 

[drtyler]

Can you please provide proof/details? From what I can see, the Fram I experienced a failure on, and the Fram in the picture seem to be very similar construction, relying on melted plastic or small amount of adhesive to hold the caps on.

I asked Fram about this a few years ago. The reason was the Toyota V8 cartridge had just come available, and it was made in China. The BMW N52/N54/N55 filter also changed — from USA production with red media to South Korean production with white media. Based on the several failures posted here and witnessed by myself, I would not use a Fram Ultra cartridge from their USA plant. The ones I have used sourced from their Asian partners have held up well in service, at least the ones I have used.

Here is the response from Fram:

“We are in a joint venture with a Chinese manufacturer to sell FRAM in that market. We have developed a XG media that is white in color and supply it to them. They have really nice production machinery for cartridge filters and we will be selling some of them here. They are still 99.9%@20 microns with 20k OCI capacity.”

 

[Davejam]

Yeah the Fram website says 99+% at 20 micron

FRAM Titanium™ Oil Filter | 20,000 Miles of Protection | FRAM

FRAM Titanium™ is a high-flow synthetic oil filter engineered for protection up to 20,000 miles.

www.fram.com

 

[Bettez88]

They should switch to the champ labs style plastic end caps that cover some of the media. More surface area for the media to bond to. Or they could just use metal end caps with a rubber seal on the ends like the old Mobil 1 filters.

 

[930.engineering]

The biggest difference I see between the two is that the Fram filter has many more pleats than the Mann filter.

I'm quite interested in anything Mann HU6013z since my GTI EA888 3G uses the same,
but I'm suprised to see the Fram has more pleats. I remember reading about Mann filters
having more pleats than others (don't remember which) several times in the past, but that
could have been air filters mainly.

Mann provides no information as to the efficiency of their filter.

While I'd love to see some data I'm convinced Mann filters perform well. VW/Audi would
have chosen a different supplier otherwise. I feel comfortable with a Mann whether they
provide data or not.

Btw, do Mann make it with white filter media now? I'd bet it used to be yellowish. This is
a Mann provided image and it's supposed to be a HU6013z:

https://catalog.mann-filter.com/file/Product/ProductImages/Premium/spin/HU_6013_z/data/spinpict/022.jpg

Some years ago I had a Mann HU6013z in my hands, but I can't remember for sure if it's been white or yellow.
Since then I had oil changes on this car done at the dealer.
.

 

[BLND1]

I'm quite interested in anything Mann HU6013z since my GTI EA888 3G uses the same,
but I'm suprised to see the Fram has more pleats. I remember reading about Mann filters
having more pleats than others (don't remember which) several times in the past, but that
could have been air filters mainly.




While I'd love to see some data I'm convinced Mann filters perform well. VW/Audi would
have chosen a different supplier otherwise. I feel comfortable with a Mann whether they
provide data or not.

Btw, do Mann make it with white filter media now? I'd bet it used to be yellowish. This is
a Mann provided image and it's supposed to be a HU6013z:

https://catalog.mann-filter.com/file/Product/ProductImages/Premium/spin/HU_6013_z/data/spinpict/022.jpg

Some years ago I had a Mann HU6013z in my hands, but I can't remember for sure if it's been white or yellow.
Since then I had oil changes on this car done at the dealer.
.

Ill be doing my first EA888 Gen 3 oil change in a few weeks. I’ll post the Mann filter when I get it.

 

[OldCowboy]

Does the Titanium box list any efficiency info?

No. But on their web site they have a video that states that this filter captures 99% of particles at the 20 micron size.

 

[OldCowboy]

I would not use a FRAM filter in this type of application. Here is my experience.

Fram Ultra FAILURE

Car: BMW X3 Oil: Mobil 1 0w-40 Miles: ~3000 This is my wife's car. We just purchased it this spring with about 77,000 miles on it. When I brought it home, I promptly dumped what was in it and dropped in a Fram Ultra filter and the Mobil 1 European formula oil. Car ran like a top. About a month...

bobistheoilguy.com

As has been noted before, a single data point has no statistical meaning. Every manufacturer will have a bad one slip through now and again.

 

[OldCowboy]

Is the Fram made in China or South Korea?

South Korea.

 

[DriveHard]

As has been noted before, a single data point has no statistical meaning. Every manufacturer will have a bad one slip through now and again.

Being an engineer, I agree 100% with your statement, but I also look at how those filters are manufactured, and it seems an above average likelihood that a similar failure mode could re-occur.

 

[Davejam]

As has been noted before, a single data point has no statistical meaning. Every manufacturer will have a bad one slip through now and again.

I disagree with your premise.
The point of statistics falls on manufactures to more or less guarantee no (0.001%) failures.
The fact that a customer found a failure and posted it on the internet is very indicative of an issue with a product.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I disagree with your premise.
The point of statistics falls on manufactures to more or less guarantee no (0.001%) failures.
The fact that a customer found a failure and posted it on the internet is very indicative of an issue with a product.

Depends on if the failure is a design or manufacturing issue, or a combination. A "bad batch" of a product can slip through manufacturing due to a materials and/or process that were not done per drawing. A design issue is going to show a much higher failure rate than an intermittant manufacturing issue.

The Purolator media tearing failure issue was a combination IMO because the media was brittle and tore relatively easy, and that combined with wide pleat spacing could cause the media to tear from excessive delta-p stress from the oil flow.

 

[Job]

With some brands of oil filters it’s let’s keep posting a chart of the failures even when the topic is a perfect filter not a failed filter. There is the chart sure as the sun shines. For other brands it’s only one data point, move along nothing to see here, because some people just really like that brand and bought them. That’s how it appears.

 

[ZeeOSix]

 

[raaizin]

After seeing Ascent Filtration's study of oil filters (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...essure-vs-flow-bubble-point-and-burst.334882/) I thought I'd see if there was a visible difference between the Fram Ultra and the OEM oil filter for my Audi A4. The OEM version is a rebranded Mann HU 6013 Z and the Fram Ultra is sold by Advance Auto Parts as the Fram Titanium. Here's a picture of the two side by side:
View attachment 65936
Both filters have synthetic media and are designed to be used with synthetic oil. The pleats in the Fram filter are backed with a metal screen. Mann says nothing about how their pleats are backed.

The biggest difference I see between the two is that the Fram filter has many more pleats than the Mann filter. From Ascent's study, we can presume that the Fram is 99%+ efficient at 15 microns. Mann provides no information as to the efficiency of their filter.

I currently have a Mann filter in my Audi and am about 1500 miles from the next OC. I'll pull a sample for UOA when I change the oil and use the Fram filter for the next OCI, after which I'll also run a UOA on that oil.

I have used Mann Filters on my A6 and put 148k on it without issue. Wife had a 2008 X3 which I think took that same filter part number seems familiar and put 100k in it without issue. I would go with the Mann